Stupid BP Owner

Yea. I would never try to socialize my snake with anything other than people. As others said, you have no idea how other animals will react and in many cases you're likely not fast enough to stop anything from happening and harm coming to one or the other.

Granted, I didn't read the whole thing. It was a mistake, and you learned.

On an unrelated note.... do you know most kitchens have gaps under the drawers/cabinets? Holes in the walls behind the appliances? I've seen more than one lost it in my kitchen post.

I'm sure others have said it, but please be careful!


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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Oh I'm familiar with dog psychological development and evolutionary history. I know several researchers in the field on a personal level. They keep me up to date on the latest studies. I am familiar with how to apply the research into real world tasks I have put more than a handful of titles on my own dogs, fosters, and other people's animals.



My issue is less you intinctively smacking the dog away from your pet and more so about you actually referring to smacking the dog as 'discipline'.

And here you are admitting that it wasn't even a thought out process. That means it was not appropriate discipline. Period.



Wouldn't need to be bigger. Just more driven. My small belgian import descended pup would have bitten you and gotten the snake in about 30 seconds. He would have taken the slap as you inviting a fight. Responding to the pressure with more pressure of his own. He is a magnificent drivey dog with a lot of defensive and fight drive. He also will not mind anyone but his handler. You could beat him over the head with a 2 by 4. He wouldn't listen to you. Instead he'd just be all "come at me bro!"



That worked for your family. Unless your roommate specifically trained the kitchen as a no go space what your parents dogs were trained is irrelevant.

I feed my dogs a diet of raw meat and bones. They eat it in the kitchen as that floor is easiest to sanitize. The kitchen is a dog space here for sure.

Snake on the floor would have been thought of as food.



There are right ways and wrong ways to train a dog. Can you please name a source of a reputable trainer who advocates hitting as an appropriate discipline method?

Go read the 2009 study by Dr Herron published in the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior.

The study concluded that adversive training techniques results in aggression. Interestingly enough the technique that resulted in the HIGHEST percentage of aggression towards people - at a whopping 41% of the surveyed dogs - was...

Striking the dog: Hitting or kicking.

Hitting dogs results in bites. Yay science. I really didn't want to turn this into a dog training discussion - but these forum posts stick around forever. You never know who is going to stumble across them. To let your statements that hitting the dog was appropriately disciplining it... that is simply DANGEROUS advice.



Sight isn't a snakes strongest sense. Scent. Heat signature. Vibrations.

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"reputable trainer"... nah. Was just my mom. It worked for our Chow-German shep mixed dog. Given it was more of a spank than anything. Unsurprisingly wouldn't work on the pitlab...

Ihavent been bitten aggressively by a dog yet. Thought a smack was enough to send a pain response which would shock the dog... much like water spray with a cat. Like it makes them forget what they were doing. Gives you a chance to correct instead of just punish.

this was what I understood, however.

off topic... kinda, but interested. How about the dog whisperer? I've watched maybe a couple of his shows and I'm curious if he truly gets dogs to listen simply by poking them and making a noise, or if he trains them in between takes...

Belgian import...?

hm...

He eats fine. Sheds fine. Poops fine.

.[/QUOTE]

You seem to keep saying that but you've had him what, a whole month so you can still count how many times he's done those things on one hand. I can tell you're excited to have a snake but really agree that you're on the path to "love him to death". The people here are just passionate about BPS and only want to see Wheatley happy, try not to get so defensive about everything. That'll help you in every aspect of your life.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

"reputable trainer"... nah. Was just my mom. It worked for our Chow-German shep mixed dog. Given it was more of a spank than anything. Unsurprisingly wouldn't work on the pitlab...

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Yeah. I'd suggest reading some studies on canine behavior and learning. Science proves time and time again that reward based training is the most effective. From pets to military working dogs.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...68159107003954

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Ihavent been bitten aggressively by a dog yet. Thought a smack was enough to send a pain response which would shock the dog... much like water spray with a cat. Like it makes them forget what they were doing. Gives you a chance to correct instead of just punish.

this was what I understood, however.

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Smack the wrong dog and you have a holy fight on your hand.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/the...cit-aggression

Good example: My youngest dog has an incredibly strong defensive drive and lots of genetic human aggression. He bit a man who reached into my car window and grabbed me. The initial bite was restrained then the guy started punching the dog in the head. Dude ended up needing a lot of stitches. The dog was hit hard enough that he had a grapefruit sized swelling on his head. All that pain response did for him was get him to bite harder.

That same dog is also slightly handler aggressive. Meaning if you were to give him what he considers an unfair correction - he WILL bite you back. My trainer was working him in heel and gave him a leash pop. Dog came up the leash and gave my trainer a good bruising bite on his forearm for it.

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off topic... kinda, but interested. How about the dog whisperer? I've watched maybe a couple of his shows and I'm curious if he truly gets dogs to listen simply by poking them and making a noise, or if he trains them in between takes...

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Ceasar Millan is a joke. Far from a reputable or skilled trainer. He uses a severely outdated dominance theory training techniques which have been disproven time and time again. He has the bite scars to prove that his techniques are confrontational and result in the dogs pushing back. The show is carefully edited to not show the worse of the worse.

One of the most reputable organizations concerning domestic animal behavior - The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior has spoken out against Millan's techniques time and time again.

Any dog savvy person can see signs of stress while he is working with dogs. The episode with the tile floor phobic great dane was especially cringe worthy. He used flooding techniques instead of desensitizing and the dog was clearly terrified. Not a great option for maintaining the human animal bond.

Interestingly enough, in the 2009 study on aversive techniques causing aggression, Ceasar Millan's classic "Scchhtttt" sound actually made an appearance. And yeah. It wasn't effective and caused problems when used outside of TV world lmao

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Belgian import...?

hm...

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Yep. My personal dog's sire was a dual purpose K9. Imported from Belgium. Had a good productive career with several criminal apprehensions and drug busts. One heck of a dog. His pup isn't too bad either if I do say so myself :D

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Yeah. I'd suggest reading some studies on canine behavior and learning. Science proves time and time again that reward based training is the most effective. From pets to military working dogs.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...68159107003954



Smack the wrong dog and you have a holy fight on your hand.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/the...cit-aggression

Good example: My youngest dog has an incredibly strong defensive drive and lots of genetic human aggression. He bit a man who reached into my car window and grabbed me. The initial bite was restrained then the guy started punching the dog in the head. Dude ended up needing a lot of stitches. The dog was hit hard enough that he had a grapefruit sized swelling on his head. All that pain response did for him was get him to bite harder.

That same dog is also slightly handler aggressive. Meaning if you were to give him what he considers an unfair correction - he WILL bite you back. My trainer was working him in heel and gave him a leash pop. Dog came up the leash and gave my trainer a good bruising bite on his forearm for it.



Ceasar Millan is a joke. Far from a reputable or skilled trainer. He uses a severely outdated dominance theory training techniques which have been disproven time and time again. He has the bite scars to prove that his techniques are confrontational and result in the dogs pushing back. The show is carefully edited to not show the worse of the worse.

One of the most reputable organizations concerning domestic animal behavior - The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior has spoken out against Millan's techniques time and time again.

Any dog savvy person can see signs of stress while he is working with dogs. The episode with the tile floor phobic great dane was especially cringe worthy. He used flooding techniques instead of desensitizing and the dog was clearly terrified. Not a great option for maintaining the human animal bond.

Interestingly enough, in the 2009 study on aversive techniques causing aggression, Ceasar Millan's classic "Scchhtttt" sound actually made an appearance. And yeah. It wasn't effective and caused problems when used outside of TV world lmao



Yep. My personal dog's sire was a dual purpose K9. Imported from Belgium. Had a good productive career with several criminal apprehensions and drug busts. One heck of a dog. His pup isn't too bad either if I do say so myself :D

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Good lord... I only saw two episodes of the show and it seemed fishy to me that the only people he was "helping" were rather rich, gullible sounding people.

A dog is so much like a child... with sharp teeth....

Your dog sounds very challenging and really cool. I'll have to get in touch with you some other time about them because Eventually I would like to work with animals.

But getting back to topic, though, because I do have a floating question I haven't asked yet...

Snakes don't have a developed brain like ours, so does this mean they don't have a memory of events? If they do, how long does it take for it to cycle out? I ask because I need to feed him, but before I leave for the store I have to take him out to weigh him.... And I definitely want him to be more relaxed.

All the dog training stuff aside, you should really take the advice about letting your snake be for a while. Just let him chill in his tank with no distractions for a while. Seriously. He has to be a nervous wreck right now. Just think about how you would feel if a barking giant with huge teeth was aggressive towards you. It would take you a bit to get over that. Snakes don't get over things by being comforted by humans. They get over them by being left alone in a place they deem to be safe and secure. There is no doubt that you love your snake. Show him how much you love him by letting him relax for a while. That would be the best thing for him right now. There will be plenty of time to hold him and show him off when he is bigger and more adjusted.

:rage:After reading this entire thread I'm sick and just plain mad. You're damn lucky you don't have a dead snake; really lucky. And it would have been 100% your fault, not the dog's not your roommate's. You are stressing out your snake in the most extreme ways possible; to the point I would honestly call it abuse.

I own two dogs and a smack wouldn't have deterred either one; you would be the owner of a dead snake.

I suggest you you leave the poor snake in his tank, feed him in his tank and quit taking him out to "explore". If you continue I expect to see either "my snake is dead" thread or "my snake is missing!" thread.

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Originally Posted by cletus

All the dog training stuff aside, you should really take the advice about letting your snake be for a while. Just let him chill in his tank with no distractions for a while. Seriously. He has to be a nervous wreck right now. Just think about how you would feel if a barking giant with huge teeth was aggressive towards you. It would take you a bit to get over that. Snakes don't get over things by being comforted by humans. They get over them by being left alone in a place they deem to be safe and secure. There is no doubt that you love your snake. Show him how much you love him by letting him relax for a while. That would be the best thing for him right now. There will be plenty of time to hold him and show him off when he is bigger and more adjusted.

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I havent touched him since. I do need to take him out to weigh him so I can get the proper meal size. He's two days behind as of tomorrow...

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I do need to take him out to weigh him so I can get the proper meal size.

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You do not need to weigh to buy food. Look at the diameter and go from there.