guess which is which...again, sorry sarin haha

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Originally Posted by mason

No one is getting agro, you just don't make much sense.

Your logic is flawed, someone "not into balls" of course woldn't know a fire from a lesser from a clown form a normal.

All of our collective points are that fires do not looklike normals, either as hatchlings or as adults. People can't tell the difference because they can be hard to photograph, like I said it helps to have seen them in person not just via kingsnake.

I'd love to see any picture of a normal that looks as good as these nice fires that are being posted, adult fires look as clearly different to normal royals as adult hypos do and even a novice/non ball keeper can tell the two are different even if they don't know (or care) why.

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Your collective point doesn't make sense??? How come some of you say that you know that they appear normalesque and some of you say they don't look like normals at all? Because your an opinionated person and you have to be right in all cases. I could easily find a picture of a normal that looks just as good as these fires and I already did because a lot of you are calling it a normal lmao!! ITS A NOT A NORMAL!

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

3. What is a horrible example of a morph anyway? A fire is a fire no?

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Absolutely not. Quality can very tremendously within any morph. Some can be cleaner, brighter, more or less blushing, pattern, etc. You seem very deffensive about this topic. You gave your opinion and others stated theirs...lighten up!

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

did I ever say they weren't?

I would love for someone to find where I said that I didn't like this morph, or understand it.

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I do not think she was saying that you did not like the morph in question

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But explain to me what is so hard about admitting that the Fire has a normal looking pattern? Actually, go to google images and you will find that alot of them do have a unique pattern unlike normals.Now not all of them, but alot of them do. Even take a look at the lesser fire, they change the pattern and color to them, that would mean that they are not just a color mutation. But, it is very very subtle. NOTHING! I can see it being hard if you own one and spent money,, but get over your investment. It is what it is. I almost feel as though someone posted a fire, said take a look at its sweet non normal pattern and crazy color and you are argueing with them... but...no one did? STill a beauty, but not as eye popping as some other snakes. This was just supposed to be a fun little comparison that Fire can SOMETIMES(not always) be confused as normals if were not as smart as all of you of course. But you had to ruin it with your god awful opinions, and YOUR logic which doesn't make sense to the average joe, which is what counts because the average joe is what helps the hobby grow.

and btw beardeddragon you really think I picked normal snakes? Are you that ignorant? You must be dumb question...But, anyway think what you want bro. I have no idea what I am talking about...I've never seen a Fire your right. In fact I have never seen a morph EVER. Now im trying to find out where ive said all of these things... I have no idea if youve ever seen one So my opinion really means jack anyway so why even argue. Your right, I'm wrong. Its funny though because only on this site is it possible to prove an opinion wrong because of all the hot headed idiots. Well really you made a statement more that a opinion, because thats how your treatingit...one that most of us already know. Nothing wrong with that, just a waste of time to me.And its also funny because there was a fire pictured there, and you thought it was normal lmao!!! So basically, you proved my point again. What a waste of time, and something that could have been fun comparison. Did you all just get mad because you didn't know which was which or something? Did I finally fool the pros haha? Thats gotta be it!!! [COLOR="red"][SIZE="3"]Fool the pros? I know im not a pro. In fact, I do not own a single ball python right now.

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

1. To prove that Fires CAN be misidentified to the novice eye.

Your not proving anything,we all know that fires can be misidentified.

2. I did not pick two normals to prove a point, and made sure I found fires for sale not just normals off of photo bucket. And I am sorry for not giving credit even though I did leave links to the actual sale.

The only links I see from you are these

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=734131
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=712247

And neither go to either snakes. All you said was you went on the internet and found pictures of the most normal looking "fires" you could find. Correct me if im wrong about not posting links... I just do not see them.

3. What is a horrible example of a morph anyway? A fire is a fire no? Again I said sometimes, not always. Not every Fire is as obvious as the next.

Your right about that.

4. They don't all have head markers. And, not all of them have the obvious Fire pattern, again not all examples are the same. Again why I made this thread that some fires are A LOT more subtle.

Again why I feel like this thread was a waste of time... We all know this... no point in finding normal looking snakes to poke at. Id understand if you were asking if that certain "fire" was indeed a fire, but no.
5. No, but maybe a yellow belly to a normal to how many of you get that wrong too.
6. If your still confused on why I made this thread well then I think you should look into some of your logic, and look into another way of thinking besides the know it all approach because it doesn't work....AGAIN LET ME EMPHASIZE THIS. I KNOW WHAT A FIRE LOOKS LIKE. I CAN TELL THEM APART FROM NORMALS. JUST SAYING SOME EXAMPLES OF THESE GUYS CAN BE TRICKY. PERIOD.

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READ SMART GUY! Here you go insulting my logic, when you cant even read.

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Your saying I have the know it all attitude...maybe I have to because I find your being a little rude in your posts and do not deserve my teddy bear attitude.



Can you post where you found these? It might very well be a fire.

Also... you keep saying look at all of our logic...well... look at yours? Right here you say you found a picture of a normal...but...then its not a normal and now something other than just a normal?

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I could easily find a picture of a normal that looks just as good as these fires and I already did because a lot of you are calling it a normal lmao!! ITS A NOT A NORMAL!

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:taz:

Listen the only reason I was being rude is because you didn't exactly come off in a polite manner yourself, and not just you for the record. I am not trying to make a point, but a lot of you seem to have had a point to prove. I made this because Dixie Pythons made a thread about a vanilla and a fire. I found it kinda entertaining that people were getting a little stumped because some of the differences in the two pictured. SO, I thought hey wouldn't it be fun(boy was I wrong) if I made one with a Fire and a normal? That is it everyone. That is all I set out to do here. And then everyone starts saying, they dont look like normals, and this and that. I have no logic, and just not really saying things the way they could have I guess, and it didn't exactly come off nice. I am aware just as you all are of the differences. I was just having a little fun like Dixie but people for some reason didn't like that I compared a fire to a normal. I guess with lower grade morphs its not frowned upon lol? I'm sorry if I offended anyone, this was just supposed to be game sorta thing. Read the begining of the thread I didn't in anyway try to seem like I was proving a point. Everyone had to get all technical though lol.

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

Listen the only reason I was being rude is because you didn't exactly come off in a polite manner yourself, and not just you for the record. I am not trying to make a point, but a lot of you seem to have had a point to prove. I made this because Dixie Pythons made a thread about a vanilla and a fire. I found it kinda entertaining that people were getting a little stumped because some of the differences in the two pictured. SO, I thought hey wouldn't it be fun(boy was I wrong) if I made one with a Fire and a normal? That is it everyone. That is all I set out to do here. And then everyone starts saying, they dont look like normals, and this and that. I have no logic, and just not really saying things the way they could have I guess, and it didn't exactly come off nice. I am aware just as you all are of the differences. I was just having a little fun like Dixie but people for some reason didn't like that I compared a fire to a normal. I guess with lower grade morphs its not frowned upon lol? I'm sorry if I offended anyone, this was just supposed to be game sorta thing. Read the begining of the thread I didn't in anyway try to seem like I was proving a point. Everyone had to get all technical though lol.

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This thread was fine until someone said that you have never seen a fire before, which I do not think was the best thing to be said because whoever posted that probably has no idea if you ever have.

I personaly just want to know if the supossed fire is really a fire, thats all.

I see now that people just misunderstood what I was saying. I think if everyone knew that I was just creating another version of what Dixie posted and was just trying to have a little fun no one would have said what they did. I think people thought I was trying to say that fires are normals or something like that idk...? I just wanted to try to create a scenario with two pics that can EASILY be misidentified because these morphs can sometimes be tricky for the 10th time haha. I feel like I wrote that last sentence a lot lol. I never was out to insult all of your intelligence in anyway, and I think you all took it that way unfortunately. Sorry if some of you got the wrong idea with this thread. It was just supposed to be a late night "which is which" thread, not a "look how normal fires look, and how lame they are..." I know all of you pride all of your morphs regardless of what they might look like, so if we can all drop it and just forget about it because this is all just misunderstanding after misunderstanding. love you all, goodnight

I still don't believe either one is a fire. Just because someone is selling it as a fire on kingsnake does not mean it is. I have seen people trying to sell normals as pastels on kingsnake and plenty of other snakes mislabeled on there. Until I saw that snake produce a BEL there is no way you could convince me ether is a fire.

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Originally Posted by jason79

I still don't believe either one is a fire. Just because someone is selling it as a fire on kingsnake does not mean it is. I have seen people trying to sell normals as pastels on kingsnake and plenty of other snakes mislabeled on there. Until I saw that snake produce a BEL there is no way you could convince me ether is a fire.

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maybe, I guess we'll never know lol.

I know one thing though, I'm never making a which is which post using a fire and a normal again haha :colbert:

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

I know one thing though, I'm never making a which is which post using a fire and a normal again haha :colbert:

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the idea would have been cool if it was just pointless fun. like the lesser vs butter (the answer was both being butters) thread.

maybe if u got a pic of a high quality fire, and a nice looking normal, it would have been interesting.

the thread went sour when someone said something that got u butthurt. no point in arguing with ppl =p. i agree with the others who said both snakes pictured are normals, and i also agree with u in saying we might never kno.

oh wells =p. do another one of these cuz i think they're fun. doesnt matter the morph, i like the challenge :gj:

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Originally Posted by h00blah

the idea would have been cool if it was just pointless fun. like the lesser vs butter (the answer was both being butters) thread.

maybe if u got a pic of a high quality fire, and a nice looking normal, it would have been interesting.

the thread went sour when someone said something that got u butthurt. no point in arguing with ppl =p. i agree with the others who said both snakes pictured are normals, and i also agree with u in saying we might never kno.

oh wells =p. do another one of these cuz i think they're fun. doesnt matter the morph, i like the challenge :gj:

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Exactly!! Well, I know I should HAVE used a quality fire but that would have been obvious. What I will do next time is leave links to where I found the pics, and I will strictly use classafieds just so we can point out these scammers as well if there are fakes. I wanted to use a lower quality fire because they resemble normals better then the nicer ones haha. And, if there are people really doing this I think this is a great way of weeding out shady breeders haha.