BAD GUY-Matt Oakley

Trevor, thanks so much for the immediate response. :) I'm sure your vet will have records that you can get copies of to support your statements (just black out any personal info prior to posting here of course). It would be of interest to all of us I think to see what the vet thinks is going on here and if he/she has any educated guess as to how long this sort of issue might have had to incubate to become this bad. I sure hope you had this girl fully quarantined.

What a mess. IMO opinion, you should just refund the money and call it a day. The snake is put down, everyone lost. Your reputation and a future sale is worth a lot more than this huge mess of a transaction. Things happen, the best thing to do is right the wrong.

In a thread such as this one, the buyer is informing potential buyers of his experience with the seller. You guys turned it into the equivalent of a playground, ganging up on the kid that crapped his pants.

Post your experiences with Matt, dont start flinging poo to be a part of the collective.

Just sayin'.

Also since everyone is All over Matt on this..... what about Trevor saying in atleasty 5-6 threads on different days, "the snake is done i'm going to euthanize it, it can't make it"....... then well i didn't have time so another time or well it looks better so we'll give it another chance......
Reptiles don't wake up with baggy eyes or tell you how their feeling, it's very difficult to know exactly how their doing, unless they are already dead bubbling out the nose and not moving..... but i haven't seen a snake just bounce back and eat after it's doing That bad, either he's giving up on a snake to try and get his money back (it is a bad economy) or the snake isn't doing that bad....
Also as animal lovers it is never easy to euthanize an animal it's one of the worst days for an owner but if that decision is made and your animal is suffering, then you make time, there are places you can go 24 hours a day, don't say you "didnt' have time to go b/c thats crazy"... it's not very responsible to say you don't have time , let the animal suffer more and you go on the internet and post bad things about someone else blaming them while the snake not only is dying but your risking the rest of your collection?? something is fishy about that.....

Hey all,

I agree that matt's shipping methods were terrible and honestly if someone shipped a snake to me like that. I would want a refund on shipping atleast. But with that said if you ask me i say Trevor is not being 100% truthful about this snake. Too much doesnt add up. Matts business practices are not great but honestly why would he purposly try to screw someone over when hes trying to breed snakes and sell them. The internet is his biggest sale point and if that gets ruined hes done. I think Trevor wants a snake for free so he threatened Matt and said he would ruin his rep if he didnt give it back the sick snake is just a cover to try and get it back. Any "proof" via email is not liable "proof" everything can be doctored. I say they are both in the wrong and they need to go there seperate ways and drop the whole topic.
-Thanks-
Steven

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by matt71915

I've been watching this thread all day. You both have valid points and both have things that havent been really proven.
Matt claims the snake wasnt sick, but she was in a plane in most likely feezing temps. for who knows how long. That could explain the URI or LRI whichever it may be, its totally possible that the snake got sick from the plane ride.

Things still in question. The mites and that trevor showed off the snake as if nothing was wrong.

Its easy to be over dramatic and say there's 200-300 mites on the snake, Im not saying that its true or false that there were that many, just saying that he may be exaggerating the amount.

Where they came from. They may have been on the snake from the beginning and Matt shipped the snake anyway. Maybe it picked them up on the way. 200-300 is a bit much to pick up during an overnight trip but i would say it could be possible.

I do find it hard to believe that an experienced keeper, seller and someone who has mostly positive feedback of his sales, wouldn't put the snake in a snake bag, even though the method of packing was so poor.

This has become a big mess, i don't think everyone is being truthful with what they have said.

In the end it MIGHT be entirely Matt's fault that this all happened because of the poor packaging, if that's the case then he should make things right and refund the money.

Just my view on this situation

---

You might want to go check BOI this is not the first time with the banana boxes ! His rep has been in question a few times all you need to do is go look !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haydenphoto

You might want to go check BOI this is not the first time with the banana boxes ! His rep has been in question a few times all you need to do is go look !

---

Also i've heard somewhere that Matt is banned from local reptile expos/shows, because he had stolen reptiles from people...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strtaylor

Hey all,

I agree that matt's shipping methods were terrible and honestly if someone shipped a snake to me like that. I would want a refund on shipping atleast. But with that said if you ask me i say Trevor is not being 100% truthful about this snake. Too much doesnt add up. Matts business practices are not great but honestly why would he purposly try to screw someone over when hes trying to breed snakes and sell them. The internet is his biggest sale point and if that gets ruined hes done. I think Trevor wants a snake for free so he threatened Matt and said he would ruin his rep if he didnt give it back the sick snake is just a cover to try and get it back. Any "proof" via email is not liable "proof" everything can be doctored. I say they are both in the wrong and they need to go there seperate ways and drop the whole topic.
-Thanks-
Steven

---

Like is said in my last post go look at the BOI you might have a diff view on this whole mess !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBD

Also i've heard somewhere that Matt is banned from local reptile expos/shows, because he had stolen reptiles from people...

---

Sorry man, but posts like this aren't gonna stand. Post up proof. Post up details, but "heard somewhere" is how complete garbage is started.

critical bill
Retired



Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,573
Name : Chuck Kimmel
Karma Power: 22

Trader Rating: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastReptiles171
Would you refund someones money if they threatened you every other email that they’ed post a bad guy thread on the BOI about you if you didn’t comply in an attempt to force you to do so?
Why wouldn't you come here yourself to start a complaint that you were being extorted? If you did everything proper and had nothing to hide or be ashamed of I cant see why you wouldn't.

I don't always agree with using the BOI as a means to pushing a person into a course of action. But some people really need that push. Its obvious you think you didn't need that push but really you did.

You said in your PM to me that you know you were wrong and planned to correct your shipping deficiencies in the future. You recognize your problem and that is a first step in bouncing back. The other step would be to refund Trevor and make this situation right. There is no denying you're a passionate young man when it comes to reptiles. Dont cut corners and let greed take that away from you buddy. Get back to the basics - back to the basics of caring - everything else will fall back into place. Please trust me on this and forget what you think Trevor is trying to pull over on you. You were wrong since step one, you admitted it and now you need to do something about it.

Do something about it.
__________________
It puts the lotion in basket.


Just a post from the other forum talking ! Just hope he does the right thing !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bloodpython171

How convenient, now you camera was incorrect when you took the pic of the animal but a little while ago you were thanking the guy for proving that you took the pic when you said you did. I'm happy you camera now has the correct info programed into it...

Everyone reading this might not know that you didn't take that pic as soon as you opened the box and i'm sure many don't even care. You said I didn't even ship the snake in a bag which is crazy as the bag was blue! But I do know you didn't get it like that and the snake wasn't in the "half alive" condition as you stated which is why you posted it on here to show everyone how nice of an animal you just added to your collection a MONTH after receiving it. No one here can honestly say they would have done the same with an animal in the condition you say she was in, I know I wouldn't. Snakes that are on the brink of death DO NOT FEED and experienced keepers/breeders wouldn't be planning on BREEDING an animal in that condition as you stated in your thread. Only you and me know you lied when you said you just opened the box and took the pic and only you and I again know how I really packed it and the condition of the animal.

You lied about how it was packed and the condition it was in when you got it.

---

One thing that bothers me is you keep bringing this up as if it is proof or something. I have noticed it at least 3 or 4 times in this thread. There are occasions where good feeding snakes will still eat if they are very sick. When I had my extremely sick snake, she ate all the way to death. The point when she couldn't strike at the mouse because her energy was gone, was when we knew it was over.
Even though she was sick and dying (nothing medically able to do) she ate fine. So, please stop saying that as if it's validating your point, because it is not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nate

Sorry man, but posts like this aren't gonna stand. Post up proof. Post up details, but "heard somewhere" is how complete garbage is started.

---

I never said it was a fact, i just said thats what i "Heard" (read)....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by evil mechanic

I've heard a few bad stories about him. Supposedly he isn't allowed at the local monthly reptile show because a bunch of people are after him for stealing reptiles from people. Story is he broke into someone's house and stole their collection, and has even been caught stealing at the local reptile show. Dunno how much is true, but I've heard it from more than 4 seperate people. I've bought frozen rodents from him and he seemed ok at that time, but recently he seems to care more about money than keeping customers. He does have good deals on his snakes, but id rather buy from someone a bit more friendly.

---

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90181

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBD

I never said it was a fact, i just said thats what i "Heard" (read)....



http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90181

---

You wanna keep with the facts in cases like this. Where you are drawing that info from is a post from someone saying "supposedly" this happened. Rumors won't help anyone's case. That's an accusation that's much harsher than poor shipping methods, and I wouldn't want my name attached to it.

Aside from the other issues I will make some comments on the shipping and this goes for Matt and anyone that has shipped or would think about shipping with inadequate shipping supply.

Some days I really wonder what goes through one’s mind that they decide to ship a LIVE animal in a less then appropriate package (whether it is makeshift box put together or a box not designed to ship a live animal) – Boxes used in the shipping of lived animals are tested and designed to withstand a certain amount of pressure, altering a box or using a box not designed to that effect means jeopardizing the animal inside the box.

1# Are people that cheap? Hard to believe in this case that one would be when they brag about making $10000 in a little over a month.

Quote:

---

pulled in a little more than $10k in just over one month between my 3 jobs

---

2# Do they care so little that they have no issue jeopardizing the life of their animal(s) and jeopardizing the ability of the rest of us to be able to ship our animals?

3# Are they that clueless? Again hard to believe in this case

Quote:

---

In over 5 years and almost 700 transactions

---

There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for an animal to be shipped in such a way, the box could have been easily crushed and lead to the animal’s death.

What is the animal had escaped from this inadequate package? (More bad press for reptile keepers, really what we need, don’t we)

Someone has a LOT to learn even though

Quote:

---

I have also invested about 17 years of reading, owning, and learning everything I could about reptiles and animals in general.

---

I guess you must have missed the chapter on proper shipping methods :rolleyes:

Next time when using SYR, how about watching the video and read the proper way to package a live reptile if you are that clueless.

Your shipping methods are not only inappropriate (even if you only do it once) and making you look bad they can affect the rest of us as well.

Would you have send this type of package to Fedex to be certified, you would have NEVER received a certification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

There is ABSOLUTELY no excuse for an animal to be shipped in such a way, the box could have been easily crushed and lead to the animal’s death.

---

I agree with all of your points, but I don't think that box was in danger of getting crushed. Produce boxes are made incredibly strong, but that box was designed to ship bananas which is why it is so ventilated (he modified the top with a piece of cardboard and taped over the ventilation and handle holes). There's just no excuse to ship any animal inside a box like that, other than maybe this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by matt71915

This is a very good example on why documenting a sale is so important.

---

x2,..my thoughts exactly :popcorn:

Quote:

---

I have also invested about 17 years of reading, owning, and learning everything I could about reptiles and animals in general.

---

That's an awful lot of time invested for a 22 year old. :confused:

Im with you about matt oakley. he could care less for the snakes he sells or the customers he deals with. im suprised you got 100 out of his sorry a$$.i purchased a female pastel ball python "A grade" or so he classified from kingsnake. i sent him the money via paypal. as soon as he got the money i never heard from him again. The snake just one day randomly was sitting on my doorstep. he didnt send me a email reguarding her being shipped, no call or message. NOTHING. she was sitting in 102 degree oklahoma weather for who know how long because i worked that day. i was blown away she was still alive in that weather. snakes last longer in too cold of temps than too hot! on top of that she arrived in a plain box. with shredded paper in a snake bag. NO cool pack. even though i told him the weather we had for the week was record setting. i sent him a email after i got her and still no reply. DO NOT BUY FROM MATT OAKLEY IF YOU WANT A LIVE ANIMAL. He is garbage!!!

Ok

Vet is faxing over 2 or 3 pages tomorrow of information surrounding this animal. Including all trips, medications prescribed, dosages, and culture results. I think he is including all costs associated as well.

They start on my first visit to his office with her on 6/30.

He believes she has some sort of virus.

I am putting the animal down this evening and will gladly post pictures for anyone who would like to see them.

My posts from now on in this thread will be limited as I've said all I need to say.

I was warned not to purchase from matt for anothetr small breeder here In Delaware. I am so glad I listen to the guy now more than ever now. Such packaging could have lead to such an illness, THe stress of the shipping( imporperaly) as well as the themp could have effected the snakes immue system to the point that it has not been able ot recover from the infection. I seen this happen with fish and other animal if the porper packaginf was not followed.

Shouldnt you have all your receipts and everything from your vet? Everytime I go to the vet my vet prints me out a bill and also a diagnostic sheet with the weight of the animal what type of animal it is. They put the pic of her on it and everything. It tells me what the vet said is wrong with the animal and all the medication she prescribed for the animal. Does your vet not do this?

Refer to post #118 above.

This information will be scanned and posted tomorrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denial

Shouldnt you have all your receipts and everything from your vet? Everytime I go to the vet my vet prints me out a bill and also a diagnostic sheet with the weight of the animal what type of animal it is. They put the pic of her on it and everything. It tells me what the vet said is wrong with the animal and all the medication she prescribed for the animal. Does your vet not do this?

---

i will not buy from Matt naw...thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TankMasterOG

i will not buy from Matt naw...thanks

---

Same here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denial

Shouldnt you have all your receipts and everything from your vet? Everytime I go to the vet my vet prints me out a bill and also a diagnostic sheet with the weight of the animal what type of animal it is. They put the pic of her on it and everything. It tells me what the vet said is wrong with the animal and all the medication she prescribed for the animal. Does your vet not do this?

---

Not all vets do, it depends on the facility. A smaller practice that we used to take our pets to would give you just a generic receipt with a summary of services listed (Labwork - $XX.XX, Exam - $XX.XX, you get the picture) and the name of the customer and animal treated. We left with some documentation, but nothing as detailed as you described.

Also on SYR policy it says improper shipping will result in a fee of $200.

Trevor,

Keep your head up. I know this has been a battle watching her, and it's always a hard decision to make when they get to the point of no return. Even more so when the animal has so much potential, but it's best to do what's humane for the animal.




Matt:

You did a piss poor job with packing and that alone shows me that you are not worth dealing with. It's not uncommon for an animal to remain "okay" until they are put through extreme conditions and stress, both of which happen during shipping, and even worse when they are sent through with no protection from those conditions. Maybe you've learned your lesson on shipping, but only time will tell.




I hope both of you are able to reach some resolution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

To matt:

I would question the length of time it took to specify the snake bag was missing. You admitted to that packaging for that snake when you responded to Jamie's query initially and did not mention it then.

I said something about the fact that the bag was missing because Trevor stated that this is exactly how the box looked when he opened it and someone mentioned that it wasn't even in a bag. The snake was in a bag when I shipped it so what he said couldn't be true.

In general:

Personally, I would never buy from someone that does not guarantee a 30 day health check (and not all breeders do), let alone someone that does not guarantee a live arrival.

I do guarantee live arrival, as long as the temps are between 50-90 degrees and the person is there to get the package when it arrives and it's not left on the porch or something. I don't technically have a TOS but do honor this. I do not offer a 30 day health guarantee because as a seller I have no idea how the animal was cared for once it has left me. I have no way in knowing how much the person even knows about herps much less a specific species when they buy an animal. I have turned people down face to face because I did not feel like they would properly care for the animal.

That is one question I ask, even if doing a cash sale at a show, and I get it in writing (yes. I carry my own pens).

If nothing this stands a good example of what documentation and expectations you have of those you buy from, and what documentation is appropriate as both a buyer and a seller.

And always make sure you ask about guarantees, and are comfortable with the answer you get.

Bruce

---

How does the chorus in that Kenny Rogers song go??? "You gotta know when to hold em', know when to fold em'. Know when to walk away, know when to run..."

Neither party involved is going to benefit from keeping this thread bumped to the top of the list.

It's the box...

For every one person who posted on this thread there are many more lurkers out there who haven't said a word. And among them are vastly varying levels of experience. Many have a number of years husbandry experience but don't have a lot of experience shipping animals.

Nevermind the names involved and the blame game that has followed ...it's the box. I see a box with large holes that are duct taped shut and I can't stop thinking about the potential implications. The reptile community is going through a precarious time right now. We are facing legislation in multiple levels of government that aims to severely restrict or even eliminate our right to keep exotics. Many people are focused on that fight. What we really don't need is to get completely blind-sided by the shipping industry by having them ban the shipment of all reptiles because a blood python got into the wiring of a plane cruising at 35,000 feet.

Dumping snakes on the side of the road, packing them in escape-enabled boxes, little children being killed... is there a sub-culture among us that wants to see a complete ban on exotic animal ownership? Yes, that is a rhetorical question ... I think.

And for the record, East Coast Reptiles (Matt Oakley's DBA name) IS NOT affiliated with me (East Coast Reptile Breeders) in any way. The similarity in trade names is unfortunate.

Cheers,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2kdime

Good points Bruce.

It would be very wise to keep records of transactions as well as any and all emails for instances like this. I'll be taking pictures of future purchases, maybe even video.

Franky-yes I contacted Matt upon arrival via phone call. I told him about the mites and the piss poor packaging, I hadn't noticed the RI until I had her soaking to drown mites.
Trevor NEVER said anything about RI until this thread was posted even after I asked him what was wrong with the animal on Aug 24th. If he noticed a RI the day he got it why did he never tell me??

I honestly do not remember if Trevor called me or not the day he received the snake.

My only deal is....

He shipped me a healthy snake?
Yes, I did which is my whole issue with this

He used the right packaging?
No, I didn't

He didn't do this or didn't do that....

But Matt DID hear me out when I called him and sent me back 100 dollars to take care of this girls medical bills.

Why give me back 100 dollars?
You told me you had a problem with the animal and wanted to take it to the vet. I only saved the emails from this whole thing until about 2 weeks ago when Trevor emailed me saying that he was going to have the animal euthanized. I asked you what you thought was fair and you told me a $100 refund, so I gave it to you.

I'll check with my vet as to what documents he still has later today.

I really have no more fight in me over this girl you guys, believe what you want. It's been stressful enough trying to get her back to health, now I've got to be called a liar?

Why would I want to lie about this snake?
Like I initially said, to get money

How does that benefit me?

Do I WANT to put this girl down? No

Do I WANT to have to euthanize her? No

In the end, Matt's got 500 bucks, I've got a dead snake.

---

The total for the snake was $490 - $100 refund = $390, not $500
I wasn't even going to say anything about this, but you keep saying $500 and it wasn't

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBD

Also i've heard somewhere that Matt is banned from local reptile expos/shows, because he had stolen reptiles from people...

---

If you're going to post third/forth/fifth party hearsay back up what you say with proof! State where i'm banned from, who I took reptiles from, proof that I have a record something. Don't just try to say something like this as an attempt to discredit me. I've been to 4 shows in my life and are banned from NONE! 3 out of the 4 shows I go to EVERY time that show comes around since 2005.

You already told me in the PM that you sent me that you were friends with Trevor so you were already partial to him from the beginning, I wouldn't expect you to agree with anything i've said whether it made since or not.

I already admitted many times that I didn't ship correctly. My problem is that a month after receiving the animal Trever posted this pic of the animal:

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...1/P1010126.jpg

This snake looks great to me and everyone else who saw it. This pic extremely contradicts the condition the Trevor says the animal is/was in. He told me that the animals condition never improved so I would assume that this pic shows her condition when he got her which is why he said he planned on breeding her. I just don't believe from looking at the pic, seeing the thread he posted on it, all the great comments he got on the animal, and now he's saying that when he got it (2 months ago) she was sick as a dog, he took that pic (1 month ago), and now she's good as dead?? That makes NO since at all

You can diagnose an RI and mites from one picture? Amazing... Forget that mites are hard to see in person, but apparently we should see that, AND an RI from one overhead picture.

Everytime I ship snakes I always call or email to confirm that the person will be there to receive the snake. Then I email everyone that day with the tracking numbers, the emails look like this:

Ed: 1Z 14W 562 01 9052 0730

Joe: 1Z 14W 562 01 9821 3432

John: 1Z 14W 562 01 9701 1643

Ben: 1Z 14W 562 01 9877 1651

Travis: 1Z 14W 562 01 9633 7464

Jeffrey: 1Z 14W 562 01 9707 3078

Ron: 1Z 14W 562 01 9472 5717

Caleb: 1Z 14W 562 01 9064 6328

Thanks everyone for being so patient with me since I was not able to ship last week. Work was hell and I didn't get a weekday off to ship due to being forced to cover a coworker's shift since her father passed away.

~Matt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Richard: 1Z 14W 562 01 9915 8107

Jessica: 1Z 14W 562 01 9963 7090

Mike: 1Z 14W 562 01 9605 7883

Shelly: 1Z 14W 562 01 9466 0680

Darren: 1Z 14W 562 01 9442 1607

thanks again,

Matt Oakley

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you everyone again! All packages went out today and here are your tracking numbers:

Allie: 1Z1 4W5 620 194 557 159

Syd: 1Z1 4W5 620 196 861 389

Daryl: 1Z1 4W5 620 196 470 597

Joseph: 1Z1 4W5 620 198 958 414

Mike: 1Z1 4W5 620 191 238 571

Griffin: 1Z1 4W5 620 193 055 194

Karla: 1Z1 4W5 620 195 643 652

You know whats starting to annoy me is the fact that this trevor person whoever it may be has said 5-6 times that he is putting the snake down today. In like 6 posts over 3 days. Im impartial to this situation in everyway shipping was terrible agreed but everything so far that trevor has shown gives me no reason to say that he is telling the truth about any other matter. I dont agree with either one of them and this sounds like a big highschool fight to me whoever tells the teacher first wins. And trevor you told the teacher (forums, boi, etc..) first. People read your posts first and people automatically are against matt because of his poor shipping display. But everytime you post somethin you make me more and more sceptical about how much of the truth your actually telling. And stop saying your putting the snake down today every day for another week because its getting old really fast. Im sorry if your telling the truth and actually have to put the snake down but we have all heard it its not swaying anymore pull for you then it was before.
-Steven-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdeus

I agree with all of your points, but I don't think that box was in danger of getting crushed. Produce boxes are made incredibly strong, but that box was designed to ship bananas which is why it is so ventilated (he modified the top with a piece of cardboard and taped over the ventilation and handle holes). There's just no excuse to ship any animal inside a box like that, other than maybe this one.

---

OMG i love that pic :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strtaylor

You know whats starting to annoy me is the fact that this trevor person whoever it may be has said 5-6 times that he is putting the snake down today. In like 6 posts over 3 days. Im impartial to this situation in everyway shipping was terrible agreed but everything so far that trevor has shown gives me no reason to say that he is telling the truth about any other matter. I dont agree with either one of them and this sounds like a big highschool fight to me whoever tells the teacher first wins. And trevor you told the teacher (forums, boi, etc..) first. People read your posts first and people automatically are against matt because of his poor shipping display. But everytime you post somethin you make me more and more sceptical about how much of the truth your actually telling. And stop saying your putting the snake down today every day for another week because its getting old really fast. Im sorry if your telling the truth and actually have to put the snake down but we have all heard it its not swaying anymore pull for you then it was before.
-Steven-

---

The way i see it he does not want to put her down ! But then again he does i see nothing wrong with him saying that its hard to put an animal down it took me 3 weeks to put my dog down ! It was a hard choice. It went through my head over and over again day after day ! So don't judge him for saying it over and over again its a hard decision to make !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bloodpython171

I already admitted many times that I didn't ship correctly.

Which is probably why the snake came down with an illness. cold temps will stress the imune system. this could have been in the animals system and she was fine with it until her immune system got low enough for the virus/bacteria were able to take over. your fault.

This snake looks great to me and everyone else who saw it. This pic extremely contradicts the condition the Trevor says the animal is/was in. He told me that the animals condition never improved so I would assume that this pic shows her condition when he got her which is why he said he planned on breeding her.

of course he planned on breeding her. everyone gets excited about new breeders and he wanted to share. when taken care of right away, RI's don't really last that long.

I just don't believe from looking at the pic, seeing the thread he posted on it, all the great comments he got on the animal, and now he's saying that when he got it (2 months ago) she was sick as a dog, he took that pic (1 month ago), and now she's good as dead?? That makes NO since at all

of all the animals i have seen with RI's, only one looked different than when it did while healthy. the only change in that animal, was a swollen mouth.

---

Hey my name was on that tracking list. I ordered 2 male pastels. Im not trying to step on anybodies toes here, but my to pastels I got about a month ago are in perfect health. I always as a preventive measure when I get a new BP i clean there new tub, then put in bedding, then spray PAM. One was normal pastel and the other was a great looking black back pastel. Both have been good eaters on f/t fuzzy mice. The communication was good(I still have all the emails) The shipping wasn't that great though. Both snakes in one bag. No styrofoam sheets for insulation. (but it was low 90s here in Oklahoma) My work is like 5 min. away from UPS, so I just call and ask them to hold my packages. When I first got the box I was worried because one of coners of the box was smashed. But there was lots of crumbled newspaper inside for packing. He also wrote fragile really big on the sides of the box.

I just thought I would share my experience I had with Matt Oakley. I still need to put up some pics of them(need to get a charger for my camera).

Thanks Daryl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dgarrison123

The shipping wasn't that great though. Both snakes in one bag. No styrofoam sheets for insulation. (but it was low 90s here in Oklahoma) My work is like 5 min. away from UPS, so I just call and ask them to hold my packages. When I first got the box I was worried because one of coners of the box was smashed. But there was lots of crumbled newspaper inside for packing. He also wrote fragile really big on the sides of the box.

---

I'm glad your snakes arrived healthy, but the temperature that day is not an excuse to ship so poorly. I believe it's been stated already that boxes without insulation actually get hotter inside than those that have it. What if the entire box had been smashed? The outcome would not have been that great, I'll tell you that much. When my drawing tablet was sent to me through UPS, the box was marked fragile and it still showed up crushed, dirty and looking like a dog played with it. Sometimes "fragile" only means that if it doesn't sound broken, it's not.

I know shipping for these animals can get pricey, but cutting corners on packaging to save money is never a good idea. It seems that spending an extra $10 to buy proper packaging would have avoided this entire mess. :colbert:

Buying the snake back from Trevor has nothing to do with me standing behind the health of the animal and the fact that I won’t doesn’t prove that it isn’t healthy especially after 2 months of him owning it. I have no idea how an animal is kept after it leaves my care. I know for a fact a month ago (after owning the animal for a month) Trevor felt that this animal was well enough to breed next season (as he stated it on the internet). I also know that he fed this animal many times during the last 2 months and at least once a day before he told me he was going to have the animal euthanized (this was almost 2 weeks ago). Yes, one person can come up with one example where they say a sick snake fed until it dies, but this is not the norm at all. They even stated that this animal had an extremely strong feeding response. Just because someone has one animal out of the norm this doesn’t discredit my point.

Usually when herps are in the condition that Trevor has stated this animal was in when he received it, when he posted the thread on her, and now they do not feed and I’m sure you can read in many books where this is stated. If I sent you a snake that was “sick as a dog” and “covered with hundreds of mites” would anyone here keep it?? I know I wouldn’t. Why would you feed it if you really planned on having it euthanized the next day? Why would it feed if it was in a so horrible state that it needed to be euthanized to end it’s suffering? Herps feeding response is directly related to their overall health and wellbeing. We ALL know that “sick as a dog,” “half alive,” “mite infested,” snakes DO NOT FEED as if nothing is wrong. I know that when I asked Trevor what was wrong with the animal AFTER he said he took it to the vet he NEVER stated that it had RI or any type of bacterial infection. If this were true wouldn’t he have told me??? Now all of a sudden when this thread was posted he seems to have all the answers with what’s wrong with the animal?

I know that a month after owning the snake Trevor was happy enough with her to take pics to show everyone on this website and received many congrats on how nice the animal was. He was very active in responding and even jokingly said how the snake appreciated all the complements with smiley faces and everything. No one had anything negative to say about her and neither did Trevor. Someone even asked where you got the snake from but you ignored the question. I got the impression from his own thread on the animal that it was fine and no one looking at it can say otherwise. Now, two months later he emails me stating that she needs to be euthanized and wants a full refund. Something does NOT ADD UP! What would anyone expect me to think? And just from me owning the animal I don’t buy it.

A couple of months ago I sold a snake to Anthony McCain (a very well known breeder). Anthony made it very clear that this snake better be perfect, shipped correctly, correctly sexed, and exactly how I described it in my ad or I was getting it back and paying to have it shipped back. He got the snake and was happy with it. I’m sure that if he had any problems with our transaction on my part he would have lit me up.

I don’t believe for one second that Trevor received the snake how he stated and his post on the animal proves it. If the animal is in a position where it needs to be euthanized it happened in the TWO MONTHS that he’s owned it. Trevor told me that the snake’s condition never improved from the day he got it so I’d assume that the pic in the thread was an accurate depiction of the animal when he received it a month earlier. Everyone that saw her told you she looked great and even perfect from someone who know’s bloods. Would Trevor lead everyone to believe that this animal that he got was so great and accept all these complements if she really wasn’t? I don’t believe Trevor would have even posted the thread in the first place if everything he’s said about the animal was true.

The fact that Trevor lied and said the pic he took of the box was exactly how he received it proves to me that he’s willing to say what he needs to to look like a total victim in the situation even if it isn’t the truth. If I would have posted a pic and stated that I took it right before I shipped and someone pulled the properties of that pic and Trevor proved that I didn’t take that pic when I said I did everyone here would have taken it as if I were lying about everything that I’ve said and not accepted, “Oh, my camera was incorrect then, but it’s correct now” and blasted me for it. When I proved Trevor didn’t take that pic when he stated he did someone else came up with an excuse to explain why the info was incorrect .

Also, I don’t know when or where Trevor really opened the box but Trevor himself stated that he has snakes shipped to his girlfriend’s job and don’t get them until your lunch break and I guess you then take them home and open them. I don’t know of any breeder that guarantees even live arrival if unless you’re there to receive the package and open it immediately. Who knows how long the snake was in the box before you had a lunch break to come get it, take it home and open it?

If it is true that I shipped that snake the snake as the pic showed (the snake freely crawling around with a couple sheets of newspaper in the box) and the temps in cargo planes are sub freezing wouldn’t the snake and all the mites you say she had froze to death in the hours she was submitted to those conditions??

I have no idea how Trevor kept this snake for the 2 months he had it. It wasn’t in the condition where he felt it needed to be euthanized when he received it (or he would have told me this then), a month later when he posted the thread on her (or he would have told me then), and I don’t believe it is now as it still feeding up to a day before her supposedly euthanasia date and if it is it got that was from how it’s been kept after receiving it.

For those who were requesting this information here it is. The first three pages are the snake's history report. Beginning 6/30 and ending 9/9/09. The last three are paid receipts. If needed I will post the history report I'll get tonight when I drop the girl off at my vet to be "disposed" of. She was put to sleep last night via the freezer method. My vet and I discussed our options and he had no problem with me doing this. My fiance' actually had to move her to the freezer from the refrigerator because I couldn't handle it. My only other option was to have the vet inject her heart.

Sometimes bad things are going to happen, and mistakes are going to be made. Matt made a mistake, I gave him the chance to make it right. If none of this made sense to him and he did not believe me when I told her she was sick then he should of bought the snake back from me like I had suggested to him. He did not, and he did not offer to refund my money. This snake would of made more money for me than $500 so for him to say I just want the money is an inaccurate statement, and not appreciated at all.

He is correct. The snake was paid for $490 and he did refund me $100 when I called him the week I got her and told him she was blowing bubbles, had mites, and I was taking her to the vet. No questions asked I received $100 immediately. So she cost me $390 + all the above vet receipts ($117.40).

A person can be judged by their character and the way they react to situations. I question Matt's character, I question his business ethics. I am not out to shut anyone down which is why I waited so long to make this information public, and I fair warned him that if we didn't resolve the problem it would be put on the BOI. Which is to hopefully prevent this from happening again.

Through all of this. I have learned a valuable lesson, and what I will need to do for all future purchases/transactions. It was learned the hard way unfortunately.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...kchianne/1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...kchianne/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...kchianne/3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...kchianne/4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...kchianne/5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...kchianne/6.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bloodpython171

Buying the snake back from Trevor has nothing to do with me standing behind the health of the animal and the fact that I won’t doesn’t prove that it isn’t healthy especially after 2 months of him owning it. I have no idea how an animal is kept after it leaves my care. I know for a fact a month ago (after owning the animal for a month) Trevor felt that this animal was well enough to breed next season (as he stated it on the internet). I also know that he fed this animal many times during the last 2 months and at least once a day before he told me he was going to have the animal euthanized (this was almost 2 weeks ago). Yes, one person can come up with one example where they say a sick snake fed until it dies, but this is not the norm at all. They even stated that this animal had an extremely strong feeding response. Just because someone has one animal out of the norm this doesn’t discredit my point.

Usually when herps are in the condition that Trevor has stated this animal was in when he received it, when he posted the thread on her, and now they do not feed and I’m sure you can read in many books where this is stated. If I sent you a snake that was “sick as a dog” and “covered with hundreds of mites” would anyone here keep it?? I know I wouldn’t. Why would you feed it if you really planned on having it euthanized the next day? Why would it feed if it was in a so horrible state that it needed to be euthanized to end it’s suffering? Herps feeding response is directly related to their overall health and wellbeing. We ALL know that “sick as a dog,” “half alive,” “mite infested,” snakes DO NOT FEED as if nothing is wrong. I know that when I asked Trevor what was wrong with the animal AFTER he said he took it to the vet he NEVER stated that it had RI or any type of bacterial infection. If this were true wouldn’t he have told me??? Now all of a sudden when this thread was posted he seems to have all the answers with what’s wrong with the animal?

I know that a month after owning the snake Trevor was happy enough with her to take pics to show everyone on this website and received many congrats on how nice the animal was. He was very active in responding and even jokingly said how the snake appreciated all the complements with smiley faces and everything. No one had anything negative to say about her and neither did Trevor. Someone even asked where you got the snake from but you ignored the question. I got the impression from his own thread on the animal that it was fine and no one looking at it can say otherwise. Now, two months later he emails me stating that she needs to be euthanized and wants a full refund. Something does NOT ADD UP! What would anyone expect me to think? And just from me owning the animal I don’t buy it.

A couple of months ago I sold a snake to Anthony McCain (a very well known breeder). Anthony made it very clear that this snake better be perfect, shipped correctly, correctly sexed, and exactly how I described it in my ad or I was getting it back and paying to have it shipped back. He got the snake and was happy with it. I’m sure that if he had any problems with our transaction on my part he would have lit me up.

I don’t believe for one second that Trevor received the snake how he stated and his post on the animal proves it. If the animal is in a position where it needs to be euthanized it happened in the TWO MONTHS that he’s owned it. Trevor told me that the snake’s condition never improved from the day he got it so I’d assume that the pic in the thread was an accurate depiction of the animal when he received it a month earlier. Everyone that saw her told you she looked great and even perfect from someone who know’s bloods. Would Trevor lead everyone to believe that this animal that he got was so great and accept all these complements if she really wasn’t? I don’t believe Trevor would have even posted the thread in the first place if everything he’s said about the animal was true.

The fact that Trevor lied and said the pic he took of the box was exactly how he received it proves to me that he’s willing to say what he needs to to look like a total victim in the situation even if it isn’t the truth. If I would have posted a pic and stated that I took it right before I shipped and someone pulled the properties of that pic and Trevor proved that I didn’t take that pic when I said I did everyone here would have taken it as if I were lying about everything that I’ve said and not accepted, “Oh, my camera was incorrect then, but it’s correct now” and blasted me for it. When I proved Trevor didn’t take that pic when he stated he did someone else came up with an excuse to explain why the info was incorrect .

Also, I don’t know when or where Trevor really opened the box but Trevor himself stated that he has snakes shipped to his girlfriend’s job and don’t get them until your lunch break and I guess you then take them home and open them. I don’t know of any breeder that guarantees even live arrival if unless you’re there to receive the package and open it immediately. Who knows how long the snake was in the box before you had a lunch break to come get it, take it home and open it?

If it is true that I shipped that snake the snake as the pic showed (the snake freely crawling around with a couple sheets of newspaper in the box) and the temps in cargo planes are sub freezing wouldn’t the snake and all the mites you say she had froze to death in the hours she was submitted to those conditions??

I have no idea how Trevor kept this snake for the 2 months he had it. It wasn’t in the condition where he felt it needed to be euthanized when he received it (or he would have told me this then), a month later when he posted the thread on her (or he would have told me then), and I don’t believe it is now as it still feeding up to a day before her supposedly euthanasia date and if it is it got that was from how it’s been kept after receiving it.

---

You need to let it go now pay him be gone ! Your rep is pretty bad now between here and BOI your toast !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bloodpython171

I also know that he fed this animal many times during the last 2 months and at least once a day before he told me he was going to have the animal euthanized (this was almost 2 weeks ago).

---

Incorrect. She was fed once before I started the antibiotics, and the last time that you had mentioned. She was not fed during the time she was taking the meds. A total of 2 times, not many times.

Gee Matt, maybe you should take some people's advice. the longer this thread goes, the worse it is for you. You know why Walmart and other such stores do so well? customer service. they will give in to the customer, even if they think that it might be BS. Why? because if one person is making a fuss about something, all the other customers see is an unhappy customer making a fuss. They don't ask why, they don't ask who's at fault, they see an altercation and will assume it's the store's fault and not come back. that is what is happening here. People see a big thread, they see you acting like a jerk, guess what, nobody wants to deal with a jerk.

As it is, i've added your name and business name to the word file on my computer of people that are blacklisted that i won't purchase from. So you've already lost one potential customer, not i think you really care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitsunex

As it is, i've added your name and business name to the word file on my computer of people that are blacklisted that i won't purchase from. So you've already lost one potential customer, not i think you really care.

---

I have done the same.

this is a very bad case of the a person going and telling mommy that the other kid down the street stole his bike and having everyone get mad at the one kid......
way too much doesn't make sense about this trevor, he wants his money back thats all it is and he's trashing a breeder who admittedly screwed up his packaging, WE ALL KNOW that, but the fact is that trevor still seems is up to some shananigans and i feel bad for matt getting dragged in the mud for this, way to go trevor you did what you wanted!
you tattled on the kid down the street and will prolly get a new shiny bike...
if you really were so heartbroken pay the 50$ to have the snake euthanized properly!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by burnziesballs8

this is a very bad case of the a person going and telling mommy that the other kid down the street stole his bike and having everyone get mad at the one kid......
way too much doesn't make sense about this trevor, he wants his money back thats all it is and he's trashing a breeder who admittedly screwed up his packaging, WE ALL KNOW that, but the fact is that trevor still seems is up to some shananigans and i feel bad for matt getting dragged in the mud for this, way to go trevor you did what you wanted!
you tattled on the kid down the street and will prolly get a new shiny bike...
if you really were so heartbroken pay the 50$ to have the snake euthanized properly!

---

Are you kidding here? I would question your reading comprehension if that is what you got out of this. What is your connection to Matt? Be honest now.. :colbert:

This is the same hockey player Burnzie?

I agree with Jaime, he is pulling offly hard for Matt, when obviously all the evidence is stacked against him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by burnziesballs8

this is a very bad case of the a person going and telling mommy that the other kid down the street stole his bike and having everyone get mad at the one kid......

you tattled on the kid down the street and will prolly get a new shiny bike...

---

So you're saying Matt stole Trevor's bike and he should get away with it? :weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdeus

So you're saying Matt stole Trevor's bike and he should get away with it? :weirdface

---

Yea, I'm not following his logic either. In short, he's saying that snitching is bad, even if you've clearly been done wrong by the other. :confused: