Breeding Standards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

If someone attempts to define high quality it would upset the people that didn't meet the parameters and make those happy that did meet them. This is unavoidable. I will get into the how's later but I actually have to do some real work right now.

And no. I don't think quality only applies to appearance. There would be categories of quality. For example, an animal that does not have feeding issues is worth way more to me than one that does. It doesn't do me any good personally to have a potential breeder that takes me four years to get to size. Also one of the few complaints about balls is the way they feed. I would rather sell animals that feed well than ones that don't especially to someone new in the hobby. Also animals with attitude problems would be worth less in my book.

---

I think I was more assuming that certain things would be taken for granted e.g. health. Also, funny thing on attitude problems - last expo I went to they had a snake specifically labeled "a**hole corn" for half the price of their other corn snakes. I looked for personality rather than appearance, but it was still a bit tempting because it was hilarious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

How do you evaluate "quality" without a standard though?

Some are easy, like pastels that don't brown out over time - and there are a few of those and they should command a premium price.

Similarly if a line of black pastel or cinnamon could be identified that did not have the duck-billing or kinking issues, or a line of spider that didn't wobble, then that's another potential standard.

Moving in this direction creates added value for owners, no different from other industries. As an example a successful racehorse or show horse will have a higher value as a performer and breeder than the backyard hack used for the occasional trail ride. Both critters have minimum care requirements, one is just more expensive.

---

This I agree with 100% ^^^^^.

And BTW board members feel free to slam me if you want, I am not thin skinned. I knew I might cause a little upheaval with this, but the intent is to be productive. I personally would like to be able to say I have a quality animal and then be able to articulate why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kcl

Also, funny thing on attitude problems - last expo I went to they had a snake specifically labeled "a**hole corn" for half the price of their other corn snakes. I looked for personality rather than appearance, but it was still a bit tempting because it was hilarious.

---

I am actually a sucker for that kind of stuff. I look on it as a challenge to see if it can be "fixed".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I am actually a sucker for that kind of stuff. I look on it as a challenge to see if it can be "fixed".

---

I felt the same way but we have plenty of snakes and are still getting the problem child dumerils boa fixed up so "I want this jerk snake to see if I can make him not a jerk" probably wasn't going to fly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

How do you evaluate "quality" without a standard though?

Some are easy, like pastels that don't brown out over time - and there are a few of those and they should command a premium price.

Similarly if a line of black pastel or cinnamon could be identified that did not have the duck-billing or kinking issues, or a line of spider that didn't wobble, then that's another potential standard.

Moving in this direction creates added value for owners, no different from other industries. As an example a successful racehorse or show horse will have a higher value as a performer and breeder than the backyard hack used for the occasional trail ride. Both critters have minimum care requirements, one is just more expensive.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kcl

I'm neither a breeder nor even particularly invested in morphs in general, so I don't really have skin in the game here, but I'm really curious as to how you define "high quality." Is it based on appearance still?

---

Again high quality and beauty is in the eye of the beholder (both vendor and buyer)

Who is to say that a clown that is busy is low quality and a reduced one should be a standard and therefore quality or vice versa, trying to impose standards will not work and is ridiculous considering the variation in mutations including animals from the same clutch.

My standards are my own I would not impose them on anyone nor do I wish anyone imposing their standards on me, there is something with everything in Ball Pythons no matter what you like, people should have their OWN standards (also many do not which is why people often ask whether or not they should by a particular animal.)

If you have an animal and you think it is a quality animal you can sell it for whatever you feel it is worth if you don't believe in your animals you can give them away or sell them cheap it's up to each an everyone of us but establishing a standard and dictating prices based on that standard is just silly, and not like people have not brought up the idea over the last 10 years.

Keeping things as they are now allows for breeders to pick out say a pastel. This pastel is not like the rest. It's a bit duller. the pattern is slightly different. Because it's different they then add an extra $100 or so to the price tag. A snake that is not a good representative of what a pastel should be is now bringing more money than an exemplatory specimen of a pastel because there are no guidlines for the morphs which allows breeders to charge more for animals that are not as genetically sound just because they look different.

I don't think all individual morphs are created equal. You can put 2 single gene pied together and one can blow your mind and one can be blah. It's def a pied but a weak one. Same goes with any morph. That's why you can't just say "insert morph" is worth this much because the quality can vary an awful lot. Just my opinion. I think it's a valid opinion when my hard earned cash is involved. On the other side of the coin I think it's a valid opinion when a breeder has spent years producing a line of stellar animals and wants to be compensated appropriately. I don't think the average end consumer takes into consideration the time, money and dedication that goes into producing quality animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cletus

I don't think all individual morphs are created equal. You can put 2 single gene pied together and one can blow your mind and one can be blah. It's def a pied but a weak one. Same goes with any morph. That's why you can't just say "insert morph" is worth this much because the quality can vary an awful lot. Just my opinion. I think it's a valid opinion when my hard earned cash is involved. On the other side of the coin I think it's a valid opinion when a breeder has spent years producing a line of stellar animals and wants to be compensated appropriately. I don't think the average end consumer takes into consideration the time, money and dedication that goes into producing quality animals.

---

But how do you verify that they are quality animals? Who decides what that quality is? The same people who stand to make the most on selling a non quality animal at a higher price than a quality animal just because it looks different? The big name breeders because they have time and money in the animals? How does your average consumer know what is and what id's not a quality animal when there is nothing to say or prove what that quality is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Unknown Subscriber

But how do you verify that they are quality animals? Who decides what that quality is? The same people who stand to make the most on selling a non quality animal at a higher price than a quality animal just because it looks different? The big name breeders because they have time and money in the animals? How does your average consumer know what is and what id's not a quality animal when there is nothing to say or prove what that quality is.

---

I think you can look at them and tell whether or not they are of quality. Take a clutch of the same morph. Some will look better than others a lot of the time. Those animals stand out and cost more. Buyers have the option of choosing the better looking animals and sellers have the option of charging more money for the better looking ones. "Looks better" is what we are talking about here. It's the paint jobs people are paying for. That's why you can buy an uber healthy normal for 20 bucks.

In my opinion there's no way you can put standards on ball pythons, way too many variations on a theme. That's what makes them so awesome. I could sell pieds all day long and no two would ever be the same.

There's also no way you can price fix either, it's based solely on supply and demand. I've seen prices drop 50% overnight, and I've also seen prices shoot up just as quick. The way that usually happens is that the price plummets, then you'll see tons of adults for sale because people are getting out of the morph because of the price drop. Then awhile later the supply dries up, but a few people hold on to it and produce a handful and jack up the prices again. The more common the morph the less expensive. Right now everyone is rushing to produce clowns, I've already seen prices dropping pretty fast. And the Bamboo morph, tons of babies out there and it seems the prices drop every few weeks.

Hey Stewart, where do you sell snakes at wholesale? I'm curious since I'm ramping up my breeding program and I'm wondering what to do if I get over run with a bunch of baby snakes LOL.