I just love 800g females!

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I think the point Jas is making is age.

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Except that he also breeds his yearling girls at 1000 grams... :P

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Here I go posting my HUMBLE opinion again...

I think that with all the threads on all the forums and all the chapters in all the books that say a female should be __ years old and _____ grams before breeding (usually the third winter and 1500 grams), there shouldn't be much harm in a few threads made by John about breeding smaller animals. Even novices are perfectly capable of gathering information from many sources and weighing the advantages and disadvantages before deciding what to do with their animals.

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No harm at ALL with John posting these threads, but I can think of a few younger members in particular that are particularly eager to get their yearling females up to weight and may feel since John has done it, then it must be ok to breed an 800 gram female, even if she is young. But they don't have the hands on experience that he does, and so it's worth noting that John himself said that breeding a yearling at that weight would be dumb.

I LOVE learning the things that John is doing - so please don't take it as me knocking him in any way.

I'm not saying you're knocking him, but you are implying that his threads would be responsible for the irresponsible actions of novice keepers. I don't think it matters as much how much experience a person has with a snake as much as it matters what kind of person they are. If they are the kind of person to read one thing and be done with it then they are the kind of person who will learn a lot of things the hard way... whether it's about ball pythons or not. It can actually almost be seen as a knock on beginners to think that so many of them will see these types of threads and stop there with their research.

Not pointing fingers at anyone or trying to stir a pot or anything like that, just offering my point of view.

I wonder if someone would risk their female Pastel Pied by breeding them at 800 grams, 1000 grams, or ... I have to wonder if more consideration is taken on high end rare morphs than normal and low end morphs. Of course the answers to this would probably bring up more questions. Being new to breeding and all that I don't have the experience he does, so I can't knock on what he is doing. I just believe as a starter that the safest place to start is a 1500 gram female. Maybe after I get some more experience and see how things work I might have to reconsider that weight, but at this point, and my level of experience, it is always best to error on the side of caution when it comes to the safety of our animals.

John is doing now, what Kevin and all of the others were doing 10 or 20 years ago, unorthodox things. That is how stuff becomes common practice or knowledge. Someone first had to do something ludacris or unorthodox.

I am interested to know what he knows. John obviously has ideas about picking out hets and is knowledgeable about breeding younger snakes.

I am curious though is there ever a point of age or weight, where you say she or he is too smaller/young? What are your standards or do you not even have standards.

What makes you think that a female is ready to breed and what not?

Also when picking out hets, be it pied, lav albino, clown or what ever. What do you usually look for specifically? Pictures would be awesome if you could take the time.

Also how long have you been keeping and doing "unorthodox" styles so to speak.

Thanks ahead of time.

-Jeff

The bottom line is know your animal and it's limitations.

At 800 Grams the few eggs you would get is not worth the risk to the animal or the chance to pass on those bad genetics.
I asked before and did not get a answer if you breed a 800 Gram female after she goes off feed untill she lays the eggs what would her body weight be after the lay?
Mark even said the he had to manually get the eggs out of his 800 Gram girl.
Yes breeding that small works but not worth the risk no matter the age or what type of Ball it is Normal or Pied.
I can drive with my knees but that don't make it a good idea...lol

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

I wonder if someone would risk their female Pastel Pied by breeding them at 800 grams, 1000 grams, or ... I have to wonder if more consideration is taken on high end rare morphs than normal and low end morphs. Of course the answers to this would probably bring up more questions. Being new to breeding and all that I don't have the experience he does, so I can't knock on what he is doing. I just believe as a starter that the safest place to start is a 1500 gram female. Maybe after I get some more experience and see how things work I might have to reconsider that weight, but at this point, and my level of experience, it is always best to error on the side of caution when it comes to the safety of our animals.

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A Ball Python is a Ball Python! I'll not post any more of my Breeding habits here, If any of you want to breed a ball buy a book...:gj:

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Originally Posted by Harold

At 800 Grams the few eggs you would get is not worth the risk to the animal or the chance to pass on those bad genetics.
I asked before and did not get a answer if you breed a 800 Gram female after she goes off feed untill she lays the eggs what would her body weight be after the lay?
Mark even said the he had to manually get the eggs out of his 800 Gram girl.
Yes breeding that small works but not worth the risk no matter the age or what type of Ball it is Normal or Pied.
I can drive with my knees but that don't make it a good idea...lol

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2500 g females get egg bound genius! It happens...

Not sure where to start but lets start with the wieght.

I have seen WC gravids come into this county at around 1200 grams. That is right before they are going to lay. So what does this mean. It probably bred around 800 grams.

Do I breed this small. Nope but am I going to beat up Jas for doing it? NOPE. He said that he has not had issues with these snakes breeding at 800 grams. Age has a lot to do with it also.

The Wild Egg layers that we have seen in the states the last few years for sale show you. There are some 1500 to 2500 gram females. BUT REMEMBER they are gravid that is not their true wieght. But you see a lot of 1100 to 1300 gravids. That means these snakes are breeding at or around 800 to 900 grams.

The reason I do not breed that small is I am not worried about producing eggs early I would like to give the female another year instead of breeding her smaller.

Is there anything wrong with it? Who am I to say. I like my females around 1500 grams. If they are 1300 and ready cool. If they are 1700 cool.

Jas is not losing his females right? He posted something that has been done by many. Believe me others that many look up to have done the same thing.

Shoot I know people that shove food down a males throat to try to get them to "breeder wieght" in 6 months.

Do I agree with breeding females at 800? No But I also am not going to beat up Jas over doing it. Why should you?

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

2500 g females get egg bound genius! It happens...

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Shoot I know not a Ball Python but a friend had his 18 foot Burm go egg Bound a few seasons back.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

A Ball Python is a Ball Python! I'll not post any more of my Breeding habits here, If any of you want to breed a ball buy a book...:gj:

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I wouldn't go that far, but since I am new my comfort level isn't that high yet from everything from selecting what to breed to what, how to determine it is ready being 1500 grams or any weight, all the pre-shed lays, when the eggs come how to get them away from the mom, setting up the incubator and shoe boxes going into it, when eggs start hatching what to do, when do you need to cut eggs,... The list goes on and on. Once I am more comfortable and a more experienced breeder the info you present on the subject of breeding lighter weight females might actually help out a lot or give me a serious eye opening to further possibilities. Also what do I do when our bumblebee doesn't make 1500 grams in 4 years! I find it very interesting that 800 gram female balls can safely lay eggs.

A couple of questions I would like to ask if I decide to attempt something similar when I am more experienced are:

1. Do you take any other safety precautions when they are on the lighter side?

2. When selecting a male to breed to it do you try to keep the male smaller than her or does it matter?

3. Have you ever lost any female regardless of weight do to complications while laying eggs?

4. I've heard if you attempt to breed a female at too young of an age she may lay all slugs and then actually take a year or so off without any laying of eggs. Do you believe this true and have you experienced it?

I'm sure I'll have more questions later if I ever decide to do anything even remotely similar to what you are doing, but answers to the above questions would give me good food for thought!

Thanks! :)

For what it's worth - I don't have any problems with John breeding as he does - he has the experience, knows his snakes and their limits - I enjoy seeing his breeding posts - I just wish he'd put a disclaimer in his first post thereby eliminating the constant bickering that ensues.

And you know someone without the experience will try to put an 800 gram juvie female in with a 300 gram spider and end with problems - because John did it - and that is not saying that it is Johns fault or responsibility - just that a lot of people aren't too bright and in todays society you need to cater to the lowest common denominator. Sad but true.

Folks if you look at it this way.Do you think when these ball pythons come together in the wild and love is in the air.Do you think they ask each other if they are old enough or large enough? I can bet they dont! :P Now i agree this option on breeding the females at a smaller size is not for everyone but John shows it works for him.How does he do this? By years of experiance and knowing his snakes :gj:

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Originally Posted by Gary Orner

Not sure where to start but lets start with the wieght.

I have seen WC gravids come into this county at around 1200 grams. That is right before they are going to lay. So what does this mean. It probably bred around 800 grams.

Do I breed this small. Nope but am I going to beat up Jas for doing it? NOPE. He said that he has not had issues with these snakes breeding at 800 grams. Age has a lot to do with it also.

The Wild Egg layers that we have seen in the states the last few years for sale show you. There are some 1500 to 2500 gram females. BUT REMEMBER they are gravid that is not their true wieght. But you see a lot of 1100 to 1300 gravids. That means these snakes are breeding at or around 800 to 900 grams.

The reason I do not breed that small is I am not worried about producing eggs early I would like to give the female another year instead of breeding her smaller.

Is there anything wrong with it? Who am I to say. I like my females around 1500 grams. If they are 1300 and ready cool. If they are 1700 cool.

Jas is not losing his females right? He posted something that has been done by many. Believe me others that many look up to have done the same thing.

Shoot I know people that shove food down a males throat to try to get them to "breeder wieght" in 6 months.

Do I agree with breeding females at 800? No But I also am not going to beat up Jas over doing it. Why should you?

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Great post:gj:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Folks if you look at it this way.Do you think when these ball pythons come together in the wild and love is in the air.Do you think they ask each other if they are old enough or large enough? I can bet they dont! :P Now i agree this option on breeding the females at a smaller size is not for everyone but John shows it works for him.How does he do this? By years of experiance and knowing his snakes :gj:

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:O:8: Most people must not of seen that she is over 5 years old and doesnt grow.. She eats a few months a year then she stops. She is Heathy and Gravid again So.... Should I sell her to a pet store or something because she only lays 3-4 eggs? My 4800g female laid 3 eggs one year.. 3-15.. Makes no difference to me.. As long as they are HEALTHY!:D

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

3-15.. Makes no difference to me..

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Unless we're talking about female breeder rats... now that's a different story... lol!

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Unless we're talking about female breeder rats... now that's a different story... lol!

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I hate rats!!:rofl:

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I was to understand that they should be around 1200 grams. thats what i as told by people on these forums. Not saying you cantdo it earlier but i thought it wasnt safe for the animal. Oh well I was misinformed i guess. Well good luck on the projects and make sure to post lots of pics of those little babies when they hatch. I love baby bp's

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No you weren't misinformed. Information comes from various sources, reflects various opinions and methods. You were informed before in those other threads you read, you're being informed again in this thread. It's information, pure and simple. What you decide to do with it, well that's up to you.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

A Ball Python is a Ball Python! I'll not post any more of my Breeding habits here, If any of you want to breed a ball buy a book...:gj:

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John, just because someone questions you or wants to know more is not an automatic reason to toss your hands up and give up, at least not in my book. You are posting about something different, something new to a lot of folks. Didn't you expect people to question the validity of your methods or ask for more information?

Personally, I don't feel comfortable with 800 gram female breeders because, like Robin, I'm far too new to breeding snakes to step outside that comfortable box quite yet. The more information you share though, helps me think about possibilities. I can't consider those other options though if I don't have information about risk factors, outcomes, etc. That's where informative posts helps me and others like me, to understand more fully about the choices you make with your breeders.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

No you weren't misinformed. Information comes from various sources, reflects various opinions and methods. You were informed before in those other threads you read, you're being informed again in this thread. It's information, pure and simple. What you decide to do with it, well that's up to you.



John, just because someone questions you or wants to know more is not an automatic reason to toss your hands up and give up, at least not in my book. You are posting about something different, something new to a lot of folks. Didn't you expect people to question the validity of your methods or ask for more information?

Personally, I don't feel comfortable with 800 gram female breeders because, like Robin, I'm far too new to breeding snakes to step outside that comfortable box quite yet. The more information you share though, helps me think about possibilities. I can't consider those other options though if I don't have information about risk factors, outcomes, etc. That's where informative posts helps me and others like me, to understand more fully about the choices you make with your breeders.

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I understand that Jo. But when people come on and tell me how my stuff will die, get egg bound, not worth breeding because of small clutches. With out haveing any expirence doing this I lose my temper. If I had a problem Trust me I would post it! Remeber my post about that crazy female yanking my yb out of my hands and wrapping him? I'm not ashamed of anything. Its all new to me also so I share how I can..

See I make no sence when I type!!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

I hate rats!!:rofl:

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I like the rats but it throws me for a loop when a girl only has 4 pups max every time! Hahaha... she's a small hairless girl who takes good care of the pups so I keep her around. :P

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

All about there feeding responce before breeding begins. If she eats Strong for me for a few months strait I know she is going to breed. If she stops feeding I could care less. I know she will eat after she lays.. If a small girl is 3 years old or more she will produce for you year after year.. Again If The SNAKE is happy with her size then you should be happy with her size! Dont try to make her bigger then she wants to be.. And dont be affraid to let her do what she does best!

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YAY, JAS!!!!

I completely understand the 1500 gram "rule", and the 92 hot 82 cool "rule", and the two identical hides "rule", etc, etc, etc. All these "rules" are designed to help the novice succeed with his/her first experience keeping these wonderful snakes. However, it is important for the intermediate keepers (those who just graduated from novice) to realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat (excuse me, I'm not advocating skinning cats, its just an old saying!!!) Thats where JAS's posts are so incredibly valuable to this forum. HE thinks outside the box, and is helping the rest of us to do so as well.

JAS, please, PLEASE, don't be discouraged by those who question or even challenge your methods. You bring an incredibly valuable point of view to this forum. And I've grown to absolutely love your wit and style in your posts! Keeps things interesting!!!

THANKS, JAS!!!

Steve

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I like the rats but it throws me for a loop when a girl only has 4 pups max every time! Hahaha... she's a small hairless girl who takes good care of the pups so I keep her around. :P

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lmao!:gj:

IMO what people need to do is open their minds a bit. Breeding snakes is not BLACK AND WHITE. I think that is what Jas was saying when he brought up the books. No matter what you think Breeding snakes is still fairly new. There is no clear wrong and right way. If you produce healthy eggs and your breeders are healthy nothing else matters.

The reason Jas is being looked down on from some is all they have heard is 1200 plus or do not breed.

I will give you some info about info in a book. It was published forever that the Boomslang was harmless. It was said to be a rearfanged harmless snake. Untill a death happened. To tell you the truth the Boomslang is more of a midfanged snake that can move it's fangs. also drop for drop is the most venomous snake in africa. Wow what a turn around huh?

IMO I do not think Jas is putting his female at risk. I also do not feel he is doing it for the money. If that was the case he would not even be breeding this girl he would replace her with an egg laying machine.

I mean shoot there is an argument for each side of every issue. The WC gravids to CH to CBB to when to breed to not liking morphs to endless things.

I say worry about what you do. Follow your morals. Let others do what they feel is right. If everyone thought the same way and did the same things WOW........................BORING.

If you like breeding at 1200 ROCK ON..... If you have a girl at 800 that breeds ROCK ON..... Cause I have a girl that is close to 3000 grams that will not produce. FUN FUN. I like her though she is mean lol.

Just have fun guys. Is that not what this is all about?

ALot of the 1500 gram is a good weight to breed came from the Ole School breeders. Then it was just passed down to others.
Now the new school breeders are trying different things and they are working. Congrats Jas and good luck.

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Originally Posted by Thomas Jones

ALot of the 1500 gram is a good weight to breed came from the Ole School breeders. Then it was just passed down to others.
Now the new school breeders are trying different things and they are working. Congrats Jas and good luck.

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Thanks TJ!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Thanks TJ!

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Don't be upset by a few nobodies who come around just to give you trouble.

If you could respond to my post directed at you, I would be greatly appreciative. If you don't feel comfortable posting just PM me.:gj:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

I understand that Jo. But when people come on and tell me how my stuff will die, get egg bound, not worth breeding because of small clutches. With out haveing any expirence doing this I lose my temper. If I had a problem Trust me I would post it! Remeber my post about that crazy female yanking my yb out of my hands and wrapping him? I'm not ashamed of anything. Its all new to me also so I share how I can..

See I make no sence when I type!!

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You make perfect sense John so keep typing.

I know it can frustrate you but please work through that. I've wanted to bang my head a time or two on my keyboard trying to explain a concept to someone online. Sometimes I know they will never get it and maybe I'm wasting my time, but then I think about the others that will read and consider that maybe my post has some valid points. Those are in the end who I'm writing to really - not to have anyone agree with me, just to consider I might have a point or my methods might be something to think about.

Keep fully explaining your methods, John, if you want anyone to understand them better. I'm not one who has automatically jumped on this smaller breeding size concept but I'm willing as always to listen.

Oh btw, I spoke to the rat colony and explained that you hate them. I'm sorry to say I think three or four of them flipped you the bird and one female ran off squealing and crying. Apparently you were supposed to call her and didn't....ya RAT! :rofl:

I didnt read the whole thread but i got the jist of it...
I do not recommend breeding females at 800 grams, but i will say i have brought in gravid girls at 1100 grams before laying.

Craziest one yet was a burgundy that was 900 grams when she came in i didnt know she was gravid, then laid 5 eggs :O she was tiny afterwards

Age plays a HUGE part in it!

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Originally Posted by Harold

At 800 Grams the few eggs you would get is not worth the risk to the animal or the chance to pass on those bad genetics.

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Don't tell all of those Dwarf Retic people that small snakes carry "Bad Genetics". Just because an animal is smaller than the norm, does not mean that it is a negative trait.

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Originally Posted by Gary Orner

I have seen WC gravids come into this county at around 1200 grams. That is right before they are going to lay. So what does this mean. It probably bred around 800 grams.

There are some 1500 to 2500 gram females. BUT REMEMBER they are gravid that is not their true wieght. But you see a lot of 1100 to 1300 gravids. That means these snakes are breeding at or around 800 to 900 grams.

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Gary, could you please expound on your explaination here. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sounds as if you are saying that females gain weight when they become gravid. My females stop eating, and typically lose a bit of weight before they ovulate. Now they definitely weigh less after laying a mass of eggs, but I consider their true weight to be their prime breeding weight.

Thanks,

Just to add something that hasn't been touched on, or maybe I missed it...

Another thing to consider is clutch size. It has been shown by Jas and other breeders that ball pythons can breed smaller than what has been the "industry standard" for the past number of years, but I don't think there's any questioning that these smaller females spit out much smaller clutches than the bigger girls...is that the general outcome that you guys have?

I think that some data on the female's size vs the # of eggs and weight of hatchlings would be the most useful information for someone deciding whether they should breed their females at a certain size.

I think that the general trend of things is that the larger your female is, the larger number of eggs you get and the hatchlings are larger out of the egg.

So there's really no reason to debate whether or not ball pythons CAN breed smaller...it has been shown that they absolutely can, and can be done without any added health risks - the real discussion here is whether or not you should - and that depends a lot on the individual breeder, the stock they are working with, and what they want to produce.

If I were someone working with a recessive or double recessive project...I'd want the largest female possible laying the largest number of eggs for obvious reasons...

Yes a female that will not eat but a few months out of the year and will not get bigger than 800 Grams and lays 3 Egg clutches to me is not good genetics to be passed on.
I would not want a Mojave female that that laid 3 eggs a year because she is 800 grams and will not feed good enough to get bigger and how many years will it even take to get her there.How long would have to breed this girl to make a super or even a double trait if I take a 3 egg go at it every year.
Yes this girl is a normal but anything that is breed to her is going to have a chance to be a bad feeder that could take a long time to get to breeding weight and would take even longer if the breeding weight was 1200 to 1500 grams.
I personally would not want to take a chance to sell someone or even produce bad feeding animals.
I do not own a dwarf retic but I am sure they eat more than 2 months a year and give more than 3 or 4 eggs a year. So no I will not tell the retic people anything.

WC animals do not have the feeding of what a captive does. We feed weekly some feed every 3 to 5 days. These animals that are coming in and laying did not wiegh that much before breeding.

I also see a lot of over wieght ball pythons when people are selling "breedable" ball pythons.


Another way to look at it is the females that are sent as p[ossible gravids. They wiegh around say 1000 grams and before they lay around 1150 to 1200.......................................

Okay- I'll throw my perspective into the ring and see what comes of it... Jas, you're a butt-head :8: and I mean that lovingly. With the title of your post, it appears that you wanted to stir it up; and you have~ and this is good. :bow: I appreciate those who think and act outside of the prescribed norm to experiment with what works for them and what does not. I also appreciate that John has been at this for some time and so is being responsible within his experiments and procedures. What I think is counterproductive to your argument, John, is when you become angry and threaten to not share or post about breeding any more because of the responses you receive from some others; certainly you must have anticipated some of these responses based on the general proscription of breeding prior to 1500g and their third winter...?:weirdface Anyway, that said, I really appreciate you sharing what is working for you and what isn't working. Thank you :gj: :D

As for some of the other responses that, insofar as I read them, are just wanting to discredit John and his methods with this snake, I say "Humbug to you" :mad: I am a strong proponent of knowledge and education and colleague respect and some members of this forum are, in my opinion, forgetting that opinion and personal breeding methodology has nothing to do with a totalitarian regime for breeding ball pythons!! :salute:

It seems to me that some people are very very invested in their opinions of what works and what does not work and so therefore their way is the only way and anger and snottiness ensues if any other way is shared. I don't get it :(

To John I say: Thanks for sharing and for pushing the envelope of education. To some members I say: Thanks for encouraging John's clarity and continued involvement in this discussion. To other members I say: Be open to learning other ways of doing things. Jas isn't trying to change anyone's breeding methods; he's just sharing his own (and yes, stirring the pot! ;) )

Well, that's it. Thanks for my time on the soap box!!

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Originally Posted by Harold

Yes a female that will not eat but a few months out of the year and will not get bigger than 800 Grams and lays 3 Egg clutches to me is not good genetics to be passed on.
I would not want a Mojave female that that laid 3 eggs a year because she is 800 grams and will not feed good enough to get bigger and how many years will it even take to get her there.How long would have to breed this girl to make a super or even a double trait if I take a 3 egg go at it every year.
Yes this girl is a normal but anything that is breed to her is going to have a chance to be a bad feeder that could take a long time to get to breeding weight and would take even longer if the breeding weight was 1200 to 1500 grams.
I personally would not want to take a chance to sell someone or even produce bad feeding animals.
I do not own a dwarf retic but I am sure they eat more than 2 months a year and give more than 3 or 4 eggs a year. So no I will not tell the retic people anything.

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Harold,
First off, what would you recommend doing with the above stated Mojave female. I am not insuating anything, just asking.

Also, I never stated that a Dwarf Retic will lay 3 or 4 eggs, but they do tend to lay clutches about half the size of a "standard" retic (and a 3 egg clutch in a ball python is about half the norm). I am not stating that John has a dwarf Ball, but just looking from a differnet angle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gary Orner

WC animals do not have the feeding of what a captive does. We feed weekly some feed every 3 to 5 days. These animals that are coming in and laying did not wiegh that much before breeding.

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The bold statement above is what I am trying to figure out. If they didn't weigh that much before breeding, where did the weight come from? (The process does not create weight. The eggs are developed from fat stores that are already in the female.)

wow, some people are soo rediculous!

Jas.....do what you do. I want to see more 800 grammers!

Print these comments and use them as TP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patthesnakeman

wow, some people are soo rediculous!

Jas.....do what you do. I want to see more 800 grammers!

Print these comments and use them as TP

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Nooooo dude, not mine!!!?!?!?!!!! :O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patthesnakeman

wow, some people are soo rediculous!

Jas.....do what you do. I want to see more 800 grammers!

Print these comments and use them as TP

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Why even post a comment like this? It seems everything is calming down then you post this :confused:.Are you trying to stir the pot back up? If anything you could have pm John this and left it at that ;).I wrote John a few pm instead of posting here :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Harold,
First off, what would you recommend doing with the above stated Mojave female. I am not insuating anything, just asking.

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The Mojave was just a example. I recommend to try and not pass the genetics of this small female on to her offspring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harold

The Mojave was just a example. I recommend to try and not pass the genetics of this small female on to her offspring.

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Some are already bigger then she is. What Now Mr. Smarty pants??

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Some are already bigger then she is. What Now Mr. Smarty pants??

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Why would JAS receive an infraction for this??????????

He made the point that the size/eating issue is not a genetic one. And he did it in a way that adds humor to the post.

Look back at many of the posts that some of our other more outspoken members have made (I'll not mention names). I think you'll find posts that border on insulting that didn't receive any type of reprimand.

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

Why would JAS receive an infraction for this??????????

He made the point that the size/eating issue is not a genetic one. And he did it in a way that adds humor to the post.

Look back at many of the posts that some of our other more outspoken members have made (I'll not mention names). I think you'll find posts that border on insulting that didn't receive any type of reprimand.

Steve

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Name calling!:rolleyes:

JAS you meaniehead!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rapture

JAS you meaniehead!

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LOOK! ^^ No points??? Mods got some splainin to do!!

Lol! D!

Consider the source. Jas hurt Harolds feelings on another forum so he is intentionally trolling the thread to stir the pot. :tears:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Name calling!:rolleyes:

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Are you serious?!?!?

In the same thread that someone called you a butthead?!?!??!

This is very disturbing.

Steve

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

Are you serious?!?!?

In the same thread that someone called you a butthead?!?!??!

This is very disturbing.

Steve

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No worries! I could careless.. They all know WAY more adout breeding then I do soo.. I'll crawl back into my little space and be quiet..:snake:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

No worries! I could careless.. They all know WAY more adout breeding then I do soo.. I'll crawl back into my little space and be quiet..:snake:

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Can I be your groupie?

:D

Steve

P.S. I have several <1000gm females that I'm expecting eggs from.