I just love 800g females!

[Rapture]

I think the point Jas is making is age.

Except that he also breeds his yearling girls at 1000 grams...

[rabernet]

Here I go posting my HUMBLE opinion again...

I think that with all the threads on all the forums and all the chapters in all the books that say a female should be __ years old and _____ grams before breeding (usually the third winter and 1500 grams), there shouldn't be much harm in a few threads made by John about breeding smaller animals. Even novices are perfectly capable of gathering information from many sources and weighing the advantages and disadvantages before deciding what to do with their animals.

No harm at ALL with John posting these threads, but I can think of a few younger members in particular that are particularly eager to get their yearling females up to weight and may feel since John has done it, then it must be ok to breed an 800 gram female, even if she is young. But they don't have the hands on experience that he does, and so it's worth noting that John himself said that breeding a yearling at that weight would be dumb.

I LOVE learning the things that John is doing - so please don't take it as me knocking him in any way.

[Rapture]

I'm not saying you're knocking him, but you are implying that his threads would be responsible for the irresponsible actions of novice keepers. I don't think it matters as much how much experience a person has with a snake as much as it matters what kind of person they are. If they are the kind of person to read one thing and be done with it then they are the kind of person who will learn a lot of things the hard way... whether it's about ball pythons or not. It can actually almost be seen as a knock on beginners to think that so many of them will see these types of threads and stop there with their research.

Not pointing fingers at anyone or trying to stir a pot or anything like that, just offering my point of view.

[Gloryhound]

I wonder if someone would risk their female Pastel Pied by breeding them at 800 grams, 1000 grams, or ... I have to wonder if more consideration is taken on high end rare morphs than normal and low end morphs. Of course the answers to this would probably bring up more questions. Being new to breeding and all that I don't have the experience he does, so I can't knock on what he is doing. I just believe as a starter that the safest place to start is a 1500 gram female. Maybe after I get some more experience and see how things work I might have to reconsider that weight, but at this point, and my level of experience, it is always best to error on the side of caution when it comes to the safety of our animals.

[Brimstone111888]

John is doing now, what Kevin and all of the others were doing 10 or 20 years ago, unorthodox things. That is how stuff becomes common practice or knowledge. Someone first had to do something ludacris or unorthodox.

I am interested to know what he knows. John obviously has ideas about picking out hets and is knowledgeable about breeding younger snakes.

I am curious though is there ever a point of age or weight, where you say she or he is too smaller/young? What are your standards or do you not even have standards.

What makes you think that a female is ready to breed and what not?

Also when picking out hets, be it pied, lav albino, clown or what ever. What do you usually look for specifically? Pictures would be awesome if you could take the time.

Also how long have you been keeping and doing "unorthodox" styles so to speak.

Thanks ahead of time.

-Jeff

[West Coast Jungle]

The bottom line is know your animal and it's limitations.

[Harold]

At 800 Grams the few eggs you would get is not worth the risk to the animal or the chance to pass on those bad genetics.
I asked before and did not get a answer if you breed a 800 Gram female after she goes off feed untill she lays the eggs what would her body weight be after the lay?
Mark even said the he had to manually get the eggs out of his 800 Gram girl.
Yes breeding that small works but not worth the risk no matter the age or what type of Ball it is Normal or Pied.
I can drive with my knees but that don't make it a good idea...lol

[JASBALLS]

I wonder if someone would risk their female Pastel Pied by breeding them at 800 grams, 1000 grams, or ... I have to wonder if more consideration is taken on high end rare morphs than normal and low end morphs. Of course the answers to this would probably bring up more questions. Being new to breeding and all that I don't have the experience he does, so I can't knock on what he is doing. I just believe as a starter that the safest place to start is a 1500 gram female. Maybe after I get some more experience and see how things work I might have to reconsider that weight, but at this point, and my level of experience, it is always best to error on the side of caution when it comes to the safety of our animals.

A Ball Python is a Ball Python! I'll not post any more of my Breeding habits here, If any of you want to breed a ball buy a book...

[JASBALLS]

At 800 Grams the few eggs you would get is not worth the risk to the animal or the chance to pass on those bad genetics.
I asked before and did not get a answer if you breed a 800 Gram female after she goes off feed untill she lays the eggs what would her body weight be after the lay?
Mark even said the he had to manually get the eggs out of his 800 Gram girl.
Yes breeding that small works but not worth the risk no matter the age or what type of Ball it is Normal or Pied.
I can drive with my knees but that don't make it a good idea...lol

2500 g females get egg bound genius! It happens...

[Gary Orner]

Not sure where to start but lets start with the wieght.

I have seen WC gravids come into this county at around 1200 grams. That is right before they are going to lay. So what does this mean. It probably bred around 800 grams.

Do I breed this small. Nope but am I going to beat up Jas for doing it? NOPE. He said that he has not had issues with these snakes breeding at 800 grams. Age has a lot to do with it also.

The Wild Egg layers that we have seen in the states the last few years for sale show you. There are some 1500 to 2500 gram females. BUT REMEMBER they are gravid that is not their true wieght. But you see a lot of 1100 to 1300 gravids. That means these snakes are breeding at or around 800 to 900 grams.

The reason I do not breed that small is I am not worried about producing eggs early I would like to give the female another year instead of breeding her smaller.

Is there anything wrong with it? Who am I to say. I like my females around 1500 grams. If they are 1300 and ready cool. If they are 1700 cool.

Jas is not losing his females right? He posted something that has been done by many. Believe me others that many look up to have done the same thing.

Shoot I know people that shove food down a males throat to try to get them to "breeder wieght" in 6 months.

Do I agree with breeding females at 800? No But I also am not going to beat up Jas over doing it. Why should you?