How often should a 4mnth Bp defecate if fed 1 fuzzie mouse a week?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

No they aren't...... they are lagomorphs.

John

---

Wow you are right.I had never heard of a lagomorph. Evidently it differs from a rodent by having 2 more incisors.

LOL Indiangirl next time you talk to Anyone from NERD or Tracey ask them how they REALLY feed thier snakes LOL


but seriously tho....until you have the actual hands on experience with working with a grp of animals how you can say that you can or cant or should or shouldnt???

That "fat" in the picture is a big old soild girl that produces for me year in and year out like clockwork and produces the biggest,fattest and meanest babies Ive ever seen....Ive yet to have a snake hatch from her that was under 90 grams outta the egg and tht didnt start on rat pups after its first shed...never been a mouser outta her yet *knocks on wood*

I would definitely not tell someone to go from fuzzy mouse (which is what the original post is about) to rabbit like you did, which is why I was hopping you were not serious when saying

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gib

i would suggest trying something this size next time you feed!

http://www.ghettoherpers.com/gallery...pics/bunny.jpg

---

Now on the

Quote:

---

I still cant understand how and why folks think BPs cannot eat large meals???

---

It's not about can or cannot it more about what is needed and what is not.
Like I said

Quote:

---

Because a BP can eat a large prey does not mean he needs to. Adults BP don’t require a large prey to thrive.

---

Do you really think a BP need a XL rat or a rabbit to thrive and gain weight?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gib

Indiangirl it no fat on that animal only reason you see any skin thru the scales is because she in the process on constricting or throwing another loop over...she is a strong feeder and a very large animal tho.she cose to 5ft long and over 3000 grams..so 1-2 large rats is basically maintenance feeding for her..Would you only feed a 5ft boa one small or medium rat a week???

---

Well, if you have found that she can consistently feed on that size meal, and still maintain a good weight and health, I guess that is what works for you. She is a big girl with that size and weight, and your best judgment is all you really have to go by.

GA ball...you cant seriously be so stupid as to realize that i was joking about feeding a 3 pound rabbit to a 4month old snake...

and as for thriving and growing it really depends on the snake as tro what it needs to do that..some snakes will do fine on small meals every week...some dont...but you need to have enuff real experience to know what is best for your animals Not this "y9ou should only feed 1 adult mouse" crap,jsut because you read it somewhere..

INdiangirl thats exactly what that snake needs ot maintain itsself well and also to not become an evil always hungry beast..


Ive got plenty of girls that dont need nearly that amount of food intake and some that eat alot more than thst on a weekly basis,Ive got one Monster of a girl that is a lil over 20 years old and she will only feed thru late spring and early summer and she does this like clockwork every year and has since ive owned her (about 8 years) and she will literally tear your face coming after you when shes in feeding mode....she eats 3-4 large rats every week from april til late spet early oct shes a GREAT breeder even still at this age and even with teh feeding schedule she is on she still doesnt get back into breeding shape until the following year

EAsy to put weight on her...but its gotta be good solid muscle mass weight not fat andmuchy weight...

and on the opposite end of the spectrum ive got girls that will take one med -large rat one a week and thats all they ever need ...maintain weight good and bounce back after breeding good too on that same regimine

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gib

GA ball...you cant seriously be so stupid

---

"So" meaning you thought I was stupid but not that much :confused:

Gotta love the name calling not bad for a new member, if you want to be respected maybe you need to start respecting others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gib

i would suggest trying something this size next time you feed!

http://www.ghettoherpers.com/gallery...pics/bunny.jpg

---

That size always works for me! Rock on Chris!!:gj:

LOL i knew you would appreciate that one John ;)


GA im not saying your stupid....but if your taking offense at missing an obivious joke....well so be it and as far as respect....you have what 16,17 BPs cant see whats in your profile while posting but its a pretty small number,and nothing wrong with that at all..but im going to assume with what you have listed most are pretty young....so im also gonna assume your pretty New to Bps ill even give ya the benifit and say 3 years or so...Now your gonna sit here and tell me with over 10 years of keeping BPs...and over 8 years of keeping a LA RGE collection of BPs and starting and maintaining 300-400 good healthy animals every year that I dont know how to feed a BP and that people shouldnt be listening to what im saying...even tho I have more experience doign exactly what your talking about than probally 90% of the folks ON this site....that seems pretty disrespectful to me...so if you feel im being disrespectful to you..then i think i can live with that...

See Gib the problem is that you assume, you don't know anything about me, what I know or what I have done before coming to this country, keep assuming I know nothing it's fine with me, that is how I like it.

And for the record no one told you what to feed your animal.

All that was said was that BP do not need large prey to thrive that is a big difference, now is that a false statement and is that direspectful???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gib

Wow Alot of regurge what ya heard from somewhere else on here....

I still cant understand how and why folks think BPs cannot eat large meals???

Ive been keeping a Large collection for going on 9 years,,and a very large BP collection of over 150 animals and breeding them for 5 years and have never had an issue with feedin large meals to them in any shape form or fashion...so heck im sure all the folks chiming in that im doing it wrong MUST be right....

The snake pictured is my very first BP shes almsot 9 years old and ive rasied her since the day she came out of the egg...that snake will Eat ANYTHING she sees...her normal meals consist of 1-2 large rats from Rodentpro and she eats them every 7 days like clockwork and after that particualr meal,,,she sat on her basking spot for 3 days like she does after every other meal nd had her normal meal on the7th day like she does every week....only thing different after that meal came about a month later...her poo had more hair than usual in it!

---

Hey Gib, I figured it out!

See, in the wild BP's have strict rules on what they will eat. You see, there mid-brains are programed by nature to weigh possible prey in grams, and determine if the size of the prey will "work for them" and not be "overkill." NOT

Oh wait, now I remember: They just eat whatever they can fit in their giant mouths because they never know when their next meal is!!!! Rats, Gerbils, Giant Rodents, whatever.

Everyone here is such an expert.

Go Gib! Next time try a cat or something. jk

:salute:

Quote:

---

I would hope you are not SERIOUSLY suggesting to feed a rabbit to a BP

I don’t have any issue with feeder rabbits (for large snake) however for a BP this is way over-killed.

Because a BP can eat a large prey does not mean he needs to. Adults BP don’t require a large prey to thrive.

The largest I feed are small rats 65 grams once a week and it is enough food even for an adult, more than they would ever get in the wild.

---

I take it you spend alot of time in the Bush researching BP food intake??
You do realize that 600-1000 gram yearlings are common in the bush in africa dont you??/
And as for assuming I was...And i still stand behind my assuptions...I honestly dont think for a second you have ANY idea what your talking about other than just puking up stuff youve read from somewhere else...adn not from any practical experience in any shape form or fashion...if im wrong Ill be hte first person to admit it...

and as for your question
do they need Large prey to Thrive...Not at all..but they need to be adequately Fed to thrive...and maintenance feeding is not thriving...thats just surviving...i can live on 4 cups of water and a peanut butter sandwich everyday....but thats not what i would call thriving...

Quote:

---

You do realize that 600-1000 gram yearlings are common in the bush in africa dont you??/

---

So are they in captivity even with small rats :rolleyes: but hey I wouldn't know right :8:

Quote:

---

I honestly dont think for a second you have ANY idea what your talking about other than just puking up stuff youve read from somewhere else

---

And no I don't regurgitate what I read or what I heard, I always been doing my own thing whether everyone else does it or not.

Quote:

---

but they need to be adequately Fed to thrive...and maintenance feeding is not thriving...thats just surviving

---

Well I am heart broken to find out that any animal that has been in my care (past or present) has just been surviving :tears:

I don't know if it helps at all, but from 1995-2001 I was routinely feeding my adult ball pythons large and jumbo F/T rats ... based on the advice of several friends that were maintaining large collections of ball pythons, for the last 6 years I've fed live and nothing larger than a small rat ... I personally feel that my collection is doing much better now than before. I have a little over 10 years worth of data to base my opinions on (as well as practical experience of getting to see 700+ ball pythons day in and day out) and I'm quite happy with the switch. And with the success that I've been having the last several years raising and breeding my animals I'm quite sure that they are thriving.

I'm not telling anyone how to feed their own snakes, nor am I suggesting that anyone doing things differently is wrong ... I'm only sharing the way I do things and what works for me ... take it for what it's worth.

The good news is that there is no ONE WAY to care for these animals ... some people use paper, some use mulch ... some feed at night, some feed during the day ... some feed large, and some feed small ... the important thing is that the animals are being cared for and that we all share this common bond ... we love these magnificent creatures! :sweeet:

However you choose to care for your snakes ... good for you … enjoy them … there are people out there that would love to see you not own a single one!!!

humbly,
-adam

Quote:

---

Quote:
You do realize that 600-1000 gram yearlings are common in the bush in africa dont you??/
So are they in captivity even with small rats but hey I wouldn't know right

---

So your saying its Ok to feed Small rats to baby bps???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gib

So your saying its Ok to feed Small rats to baby bps???

---

I said yearling in captivity can be in that weight range even if fed nothing larger than a small rat.

I will say it again, since you have issue understanding me (got to be a language barrier here :8:), no one told you what to feed YOUR BP, all that was said was An adult BP can thrive on small rats (and I don't mean survive I mean thrive) But again what do I know :rolleyes: .

Adam seems the wisest here...calm, cool, knowledgeable andvery respectful.

But..I'm glad we don't haveto feed rabbits!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cheryls

Adam seems the wisest here

---

Thank you, but I wouldn't go that far ... lol ... I'm just a big dummy that has been blessed to be able to work with a large number of my favorite animal on the planet for a long time now ... I can see the validity in the points made by everyone that has posted in this discussion and even if I don't agree with them, I have the utmost respect for anyone that is passionate about giving their animals the best care as they see it.

And I'm glad that I don't have to feed rabbits too. ;)

-adam

So this random guy pops out of no where... starts saying hes got all this experience but has shown no proof of this other than his word... ever think about the snakes health? You are aware that these snakes are opportunists in the wild and don't eat every week? Millions of years of evolution has made it possible for them to survive on very little food. With that said im not saying its good to starve your snake or anything. All I'm saying is if they were made to eat everyweek and big meals such as 2 large rats dont you think theyd be a little bit bigger than 5ft and 3-5lbs? Im curious if you have children... Do you let them eat whatever whenever?

Guys and Gals - Adam said it quite well

Quote:

---

The good news is that there is no ONE WAY to care for these animals

---

Let's all just take a step back and try to figure out why we're getting so worked up over this? Do what works for you. Share what's worked for you, and be respectful of our differences.

Quote:

---

So this random guy pops out of no where... starts saying hes got all this experience but has shown no proof of this other than his word...

---

He may have popped up out of nowhere to you, but he's been on Reptile Radio as a caller, he's metioned by Jason of Jason's Jungle as his biggest customer, he's also a regular and respected contributor on Fauna. Just because he's new here, doesn't mean he's some random guy with no experience. I knew who he was immediately.

I do think that his original post with the picture of the rabbit was meant to be in jest to the OP. Would I ever choose to feed a rabbit to any of my collection? No. But do I take issue with Chris doing it with his? No. I'm sure he knows his collection as well as Adam knows his, as well as I know my modest collection, as well as Tim knows his, etc.

There's no one right way to do this guys - as Larry and BT say every week - do what works for you.

for him coming outta no where... Anyone could make up a name, come on here say they have all this experience. Does that mean I believe them? Def. not. If hes got a website or something proving that he actually owns what he says he does then I'll listen to him. Its nice that you know him but theres many other posters like myself who have no idea who this guy is. Hes been a memeber for a yr and only made 18 posts what else are we supposed to think?

josh as far as health of my animals..ive got Many many many animals well over 10 years old and quite a few that are over 20 years old they all eat the same way i feed most everything else...
And dont worry the snakes that eat 2 large rats a week are WAY over 3-5 pounds...
breeders here are usually 5 pounds minimum

as to who i am or proof as to what I have or what im saying Just ask a few folks on this site...quite a few folks here have alot of animals from me ;)

and Do i have a website...nope...dont really like even posting on the forums to be honest...but i cruise thru a few read a cpl of posts and if i have something constructive to add or if i can help out I do...

but now when i come on post good advice for someone that is obviously having a prob or doing something wrong and i make a joke and everyone starts attacking me for it...well I will reply and defend myself..if you have any doubts about my collection or my experience if your ever in kentucky feel free to stop by and ill let ya check out everything here!Or feel free to ask any of the other Ky folks that post on here im sure they can vouch for what im saying

And rab thank ya kindly for your words there I do appreciate it and the rabbit pic..jsut something funny ,Huge snake small rabbit made for a funny photo op!! how could ya pass up on that...

as for the rest of BS..ehh whatever take it for what it is...

Adam large collection live is the only way to go saves time and alot of money...wish i had the means to go into full scale rat production so i could use my freezers for nothing but food...But wife would kill me if i set up a large rat colony lol nad small is the way to go when ya feed live...can do singles or multiples and it makes things soo much easier in the aftermath of egg season..I live for the days when larry calls me to come empty his rat bins LOL nothing like being able to go thru 75-100 rats in about 15 minutes LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

for him coming outta no where... Anyone could make up a name, come on here say they have all this experience. Does that mean I believe them? Def. not. If hes got a website or something proving that he actually owns what he says he does then I'll listen to him. Its nice that you know him but theres many other posters like myself who have no idea who this guy is. Hes been a memeber for a yr and only made 18 posts what else are we supposed to think?

---

First of all, he didn't come out of nowhere. You said yourself he has been here for a year, so that puts him here 3 times as long as you.
He didn't "make up a name". He is a name that is well respected in other comminities, for not only his husbandry,but his attention to detail, and ability to selectively breed like no other.
I dont think you have to believe him. I would hope that you would not skip over all of his posts because you don't like what he said in one thread though. I think there is a lot that can be learned if you can take off your blinders.Perhaps you could teach him a thing or two along the way as well.
I love that one of your criteria for being credible is that he has to have a site. I can think of a few names that everyone knows that had websites that weren't exactly the best to get info from, or to buy animals from. I am sure the BOI contains a few more than I can think of!
As for his 18 posts...Posting does not equate to knowledge. There are people here who have more than 470 posts in 4 months, and looking back at some of those posts, I wonder how many it would take to add up to what Chris has added with his.
Think what you want. If you want others to guide you in your thought process, you may be in the right place!

One more thing...We can guess all day about what the biggest prey item they eat in Africa is. As this picture shows, there are some food items in Africa that are larger than we commonly see, and being opportunistic I think if given the choice between going another month hungry, and eating that item that is too big, the ball will choose the big food.
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/124...4121MrTQ_w.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

for him coming outta no where... Anyone could make up a name, come on here say they have all this experience. Does that mean I believe them? Def. not. If hes got a website or something proving that he actually owns what he says he does then I'll listen to him. Its nice that you know him but theres many other posters like myself who have no idea who this guy is. Hes been a memeber for a yr and only made 18 posts what else are we supposed to think?

---

Thats funny because i own SEVERAL animals from Gib ( Chris ) and consider him a friend. as i believe several people here also can say the same about him. Ill stand behind him 100% in his experience and knowledge of ball pythons.

The fact that you would have the gall to make such an uneducated post without actually doing a little research on a user you are making such a post against is just simply amusing. I think i prefer the comfort of the pack.... at least a little thing like research never got in the way of their intelligence :rofl::rofl:

I’ll go ahead and stick my nose in on this one even though I’m fairly new here too and the majority of you don’t have a clue as to who I am – I don’t have a website or even a Myspace page…LOL…I start my babies out on rat pups – Pups not pinkies…Pinkies are for Corn snakes not Pythons…If I can’t get them to take rat pups within a few weeks then I try small adult mice…The fast movement from mice is usually what triggers the feeding response in my holdout babies…After a few mice they usually switch over to rat pups…I feed my yearlings smalls and my adults either get smalls or mediums – Live…It’s usually smalls though – I breed my own rats and usually I don’t have enough to let grow up to mediums…I either feed multiples or twice a week…Adult males get smalls every 10 days – Lean males are better breeders for me…I do have several monster females that get F/T larges once a week to every 10 days…I also have several breeder females that eat mice…IMO – Mice suck…It’s time consuming to feed an adult breeder females 5 large mice a feeding - Twice a week to put her weight back on after laying eggs…Not mention breeding mice sucks worse – They stink a whole lot worse than rats…My mice eating females (with the exception of one female) lay smaller clutches than my rat eaters…They take longer to gain their weight back after laying – Did I mention mice stink? I feed to breed if that makes sense – I feed the majority of my collection small meals multiple times a week…I learned a long – long time ago from raising and breeding Colubrids that it’s easier and faster to digest a smaller meal than a larger meal and if you can keep food in their stomach from multiple smaller food items you’ll get better growth than by feeding a big meal once a week…In all seriousness – Do what works for you…That’s what’s worked for me in the past and if it ain’t broke – I ain’t fixing it…There’s a reason I (and many – many others) can get young (and I mean young) males to breed and produce fertile clutches…There’s a reason 95% of my females produce every year and don’t need to “skip” a year in production…IMO – I believe I can achieve these things because the husbandry practices that I use produce thriving snakes – The proofs in the pudding so to say…To those that are feeding pinkies – Grab some small mice or rat pups for your BP and give the pinkies to the Corns…To those that are feeding hoppers to snakes that are a few months old make the switch to large adult mice or weanling rat pups…Get your nose out of the books and get in your snake room – They’ll teach you more than any book ever will…For the record – I have a modest collection of BP’s (125 keepers – plus or minus a few)…I also keep a handful of Boas, Womas, JCP’s and Borneo Shortails…Yep – I even have some Corn snakes too – They get the pinkies…LOL…
BT

My comment would be that membership in BPNet is not the only determining factor when you judge someone's opinion as valid or not valid to you personally. BPNet is growing a lot, we are blessed to welcome a number of new members recently and I would hope to see that trend continue.

Those members may have little to no experience or years upon years of working with a large collection. Just because their post count is whatever and their join date is last week does not make what they say invalid Josh. It's always smart to take what one reads and then go forward doing your own research to help you decide if you wish to follow a piece of advice presented on a forum. However, it's not smart to just toss someone's words back in their face because you personally don't know them. That's more about personal ego than smart decision making as far as I'm concerned.

For me, I'll take Gib's wisdom as I've done with Kara's, Adam's, Tim's, etc. I'll add it to the information I already have and appreciate it being shared with me. That doesn't mean I'll automatically nod and agree, or argue and disagree. It just means it's information. In the end, it's my collection, my experience level, my comfort level that always will determine what I do with any information I take in. :)

Ight so you all seem to be missing the SIMPLE facts here... anyone can come on here and pretend to be a educated snake owner can they not?... the website was just an example. Did I say bc he doesnt have a website he must not know anything about snakes? Naw def not. Most... again I didnt do any research here ... most well know breeders have a website of some sort where they sell their snakes... As far as research... i dont need research to point out the obvious... Did I say bc hes only made 18 posts he must not know anything about snakes? No that was simply saysing that he could be a 14 yr old messing around on the computer... happens all the time. What I think is funny is Davey Fig joins today to support this guy... and mooings been a member for 2 yrs and comes out of the wood work as well... Just out of curiosity where did I say bc hes only been a member for a yr and made 18posts so he doesnt know anything? You wont find it bc I never said it... It was mere observation after scrolling over this thread for like 2 mins... I guess next time I need to research 2 hrs to point out the obvious?

I remember why I was never a big forum poster...Good luck - See you guys around...
BT

Yes, but Gib is well known in the community Josh. If he were a troll trying to stir things up, I think the people here would have taken a little more intitiative. Everyone is saying that he is well known, and to always take everything you read with a grain of salt.

He has already stated that the monster female he feeds large meals to only feeds a few months a year. He knows his animals, and he finds it best to feed her when he can before she goes off feed.

Adam says he has tried both ways, and he prefers small meals for his animals. It works for him, and has for years. Except you don't see Gib tearing Adam apart, or Adam doing that to him.



BT, co-host of reptile radio, rebel from the south, he says he likes his males lean. He gets these youngin boys to breed for him consistently. He's doing something right for his bunch of animals.

Again, everyone is different, and only time and experience can tell you what works for you and your animals. I think Franky, Rabernet, and many others have said it well. Just take a step back, and chew on everything you read, and find your niche.

[edit]
And as to posting, I think your relying a little too much on that. Look at me, 1400 some posts in 9 months. I love the community here, and I like to be apart of this by actively posting. Some things I feel very strongly about, but pick your battles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'm not telling anyone how to feed their own snakes, nor am I suggesting that anyone doing things differently is wrong ... I'm only sharing the way I do things and what works for me ... take it for what it's worth.

The good news is that there is no ONE WAY to care for these animals ... some people use paper, some use mulch ... some feed at night, some feed during the day ... some feed large, and some feed small ... the important thing is that the animals are being cared for and that we all share this common bond ... we love these magnificent creatures! :sweeet:

humbly,
-adam

---

Thank you Adam. Very well said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Hes been a memeber for a yr and only made 18 posts what else are we supposed to think?

---

I didn't think that. Who's we?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Did I say bc hes only made 18 posts he must not know anything about snakes? No that was simply saysing that he could be a 14 yr old messing around on the computer... happens all the time.

---

Sounded like you were to me. I didn't see what you were simply saying because you didn't simply say it. You implied it.

Regardless, to each their own. Seems to me that you like the idea of housing BP's in large rubbermaids. If it works for you then great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Dont believe everything people tell you... All 11 of my snakes are in tubs "too big for snakes" according to a lot of people on this site and I have zero problems. As long as you have 2 hides a water dish and the right temps/humidity youll be fine. Dont you think atleast one of my 11 snakes would be "stressed out" if that statment were true? Temps and humidity and snug hides are most important... The only reason I use such big tubs are bc i provide something for them to climb on which means my tubs need to be taller... check out my pics... the size comparison is no different that the pics recently posted. Theres no proof that babies do "better" in smaller tubs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Naw your def right... a ball shouldnt be fed anything more than a medium rat... and even that is larger than most people choose to feed but itsnt toooooo unreasonable... a rabbit is probably the same as like 3 jumbo XXL rats.

---

So IMO before you make concrete statements as these. You should understand that like you, people are able to raise these animals differently based on their own personal experience. As with what others have said in the past "there is no ONE way to raise these animal."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I guess next time I need to research 2 hrs to point out the obvious?

---

What are you trying to point out?

Gib(Chris) may be a "well known member to the community" but Ive been here for 5 months and never seen his name posted before, never read anything until this. How many newbies have joined since the same time I did?... they as well have no clue who he is... If he had a profile... some pics... a website... a name on his signature... SOMETHING.... atleast then Id have something to "research" but all I and other posters have are GIB and his date of birth... Unfortunately I didnt go to crime school so I guess ill just take the info thats available to me... how long hes been here and how many posts hes made. It may not be a good indicator of someones knowledge but its all thats available.

In the end I of all people could care less what he feed his snake. I know what its like to stray from the norm and take heat for it... As everyones now pointed out ... theres more than 1 way than to care for animals and this is just another example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Well, I decided to put some credence into your position Gib, and I have read around a few different sites. I also have some books by well known authors and herptoculturists. Unfortunately, none of them back up that feeding 1-2 large rats every 7 days is recommended. VPI, NERD, Vosjoli, and others all say that BP's can eat 2-3 mice as adults. I have seen your picture of the female, and from the laying of the scales, you can very clearly see her skin inbetween them. This is usually a good indicator that she is too fat.

If you were to feed 1-2 large rats every few weeks, I could better agree with your position. I hope that most people will err on the side of caution, and avoid overfeeding our captive animals. Primarily based on the very experienced words of Dave and Tracy Barker. I would rather follow their guidance than yours, since theirs also reflects common sense.

---

agreed!:gj:

Wow, I didn't think that topic would go so far. I red every single post here and the important thing is that I have learned a lot about BPS from your experiences for which I Thank You All.

p.s the snake pooped the other day. I'm working on switching all my snakes to rats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

most well know breeders have a website of some sort where they sell their snakes...

---

Did Ed Clark have a website when you decided to purchase from him? How about BHB? They JUST got a website, but they are well known. How about Michael Jolliff - you've heard of him? No website. Amir Soleyman (I know I just crucified his last name) - no website. Ian G - no website. There are far more well known breeders out there that don't NEED a website.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BT41042

I remember why I was never a big forum poster...Good luck - See you guys around...
BT

---

BT, please don't let this keep you from participating here. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

In the end I of all people could care less what he feed his snake. I know what its like to stray from the norm and take heat for it... As everyones now pointed out ... theres more than 1 way than to care for animals and this is just another example.

---

So then why did you make a big stink about his credibility if you could care less?

The OP got his information so to me this thread is dead... I've made the points I had to made... If you still do not see where I'm coming from and would like further clarification send me a PM and id be glad to explain myself.

Sorry, but my mouse-eating breeders gained their weight back plus some incredibly quickly. I had 2 2000g+ girls lay 6 and 7 eggs respectively, in late May to early June. Babies hatched late July, early August. One female is already breeding again, the other female is going to a friend of mine.

So yeah.. Rats or Mice, whichever is more convenient for you and whatever the snakes readily eat, is what you should feed. They both do the job just fine.

The staff recently received a PM from a member that was concerned about another thread. And part of that PM included the words, "I'm not sure I like the direction that BPnet is taking".... which leaves the whole staff sort of scratching their heads and going, "What the heck is that supposed to mean?" As the site grows...it WILL change. It's inevitable. The best we can do is to try and guide and direct these changes so that the core mission of our community (to educate and support those new to the hobby) continues to be met.

To me...this thread is indicative of the fact that the direction of the site IS changing somewhat. And I don't mean socially speaking....but I mean in the way that we educate our new members. In the past...when our core group was much smaller and consisted of only a handful of truly experienced folks....we were able to keep our advice relatively consistent and along the same track with each other. We broke things down to the most basic and simplest of methods that were proven to work. This worked well for our site because then the "newbies" felt like they had a trustworthy source of information and didn't have to constantly try and guess which answers were right.

As we grow...we bring in more and more people who don't do it "our way"...but their ways are still just as valid. The trouble with this is...how is someone totally new to the art of keeping snakes supposed to figure out which method will work for them? And THAT is why some of our members seem a bit militant about defending the advice we give out. It's not that we are critical of the way others choose to keep their snakes...it's because we have tried for so long to keep things as simple as possible for the beginner.

This is a sort of "growing pain" we have to go through...this transition of being able to support a single simple method to teach beginners....to being able to accept the expression of other methods. We do NOT need to argue about it. Doing so only adds to the confusion of the beginner and may very well cause them to look elsewhere for advice.

Try this...when you find yourself facing advice you personally would not give. DON'T address the person giving the advice. Instead, address the person seeking the advice. And don't tell them who to listen to or not listen to....just simply explain your own method of feeding or housing or whatever and WHY you do it the way you do. Rather than trying to force your personal thoughts to the top of the argument-heap....allow the advice-seeker to make their own decision after carefully weighing what each person has to say. If they are going to be successful at keeping snakes (or any animal, for that matter)...they'll need to learn to do that, anyhow.

Sorry so long winded...y'all know how I can get sometimes... :oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Ight so you all seem to be missing the SIMPLE facts here... anyone can come on here and pretend to be a educated snake owner can they not?... the website was just an example. Did I say bc he doesnt have a website he must not know anything about snakes? Naw def not. Most... again I didnt do any research here ... most well know breeders have a website of some sort where they sell their snakes... As far as research... i dont need research to point out the obvious... Did I say bc hes only made 18 posts he must not know anything about snakes? No that was simply saysing that he could be a 14 yr old messing around on the computer... happens all the time. What I think is funny is Davey Fig joins today to support this guy... and mooings been a member for 2 yrs and comes out of the wood work as well... Just out of curiosity where did I say bc hes only been a member for a yr and made 18posts so he doesnt know anything? You wont find it bc I never said it... It was mere observation after scrolling over this thread for like 2 mins... I guess next time I need to research 2 hrs to point out the obvious?

---

Ight????

Wow, how fast opinions may change. Back to the hole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Gib(Chris) may be a "well known member to the community" but Ive been here for 5 months and never seen his name posted before, never read anything until this. How many newbies have joined since the same time I did?... they as well have no clue who he is... If he had a profile... some pics... a website... a name on his signature... SOMETHING.... atleast then Id have something to "research" but all I and other posters have are GIB and his date of birth... Unfortunately I didnt go to crime school so I guess ill just take the info thats available to me... how long hes been here and how many posts hes made. It may not be a good indicator of someones knowledge but its all thats available.

In the end I of all people could care less what he feed his snake. I know what its like to stray from the norm and take heat for it... As everyones now pointed out ... theres more than 1 way than to care for animals and this is just another example.

---

Oh boy, I'm getting me some pictures, a website, and a signature. Then I can be an expert...

Thats all I need right? Without that stuff there is no way anyone can know answers to questions!!!!

This thread is out there....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Gib(Chris) may be a "well known member to the community" but Ive been here for 5 months and never seen his name posted before, never read anything until this. How many newbies have joined since the same time I did?... they as well have no clue who he is... If he had a profile... some pics... a website... a name on his signature... SOMETHING.... atleast then Id have something to "research" but all I and other posters have are GIB and his date of birth... Unfortunately I didnt go to crime school so I guess ill just take the info thats available to me... how long hes been here and how many posts hes made. It may not be a good indicator of someones knowledge but its all thats available.

In the end I of all people could care less what he feed his snake. I know what its like to stray from the norm and take heat for it... As everyones now pointed out ... theres more than 1 way than to care for animals and this is just another example.

---

Josh, while I am sure you have seen it all in your long 5 month run on this site, isn't it a little bit silly to think that because YOU haven't heard of him that he has nothing to offer, or that his information is of lesser value than that of a veteran like yourself?
If you and the "newbies" haven't heard of him, then you are missing out. If this is the only site that you participate in, then perhaps you should venture out and see what else is out there. There are many different ideas about husbandry out there that you may never even read if you limit yourself to one source.
You keep hinting that if he had a site, or posts that he would have more credibility, and that all you have to go by is what he says. You also make mention that anyone could just make up a name and post whatever they want.
It's 2007, and the age of the internet is in full swing. It is just as easy to make up a profile, or a website as it is to make up a catchy user name. You say that all we have to go on is his name and his date of birth, so I was wondering, do you think it is difficult to make up a birthday when registering? I could come on here, and make up any name I want, and link to someone else's site, show pics, have a pretty avatar, and post nearly 500 posts in a handfull of months. Would I be looked at as more credible?
I think the best idea with threads like this is to look at the information given, and rather than attempt to discredit someone you know nothing about, share your own experiences. The better you support your ideas, the the better your side looks. You don't have to attack an individual to make your side look better. Simple proof of your success with your tried and true methods is often enough to lead even the newest of newbies to believe that your technique is the route they want to choose.
I know you mentioned in another post that I just showed up yesterday, and came only to support Gib. I would LOVE to hear why that was even mentioned. It's true, I did come here for just that reason. I wouldn't have known about this site if it weren't for your posts being shared in a group of experienced keepers. I think expanding the member base is good, regardless of how people get here. I am sorry that my first post was in support of someone rather than something on feeding, or posting a picture.By the way, I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on in my support in Chris if I didn't have 9 snakes from him. He sent me a group to see how I liked ball pythons.
You then mentioned Alicia (mooing). Again, I wonder what it has to do with anything? She has been here a while, and hasn't posted...and? So you woke a sleeping giant, and are upset by the outcome. Again, I'm sorry things didn't end up the way you had hoped, but that happens when you poke people. Alicia is one of those people who if you treat her right, will always be there for you, through thick and thin. She doesn't always have something to say, but when she does you can bet it is because she is passionate about what she is saying.At ties she makes me second guess my offline friends. You would be fortunate to have someone like her in your corner.
It really is too bad that you don't know of Chris. He really is a great guy, and I would bet that the reason he doesn't have a site is that he sells out every year without one. He doesn't post ads because he doesnt have to. He doesn't need a contact page on a glittery site for you to find him, because he is always around somewhere. I think he is estimating a year of 300 babies...I bet this time next year he doesn't have any left, and still won't have a site. I think I am rambling, so I will end this for now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveyFig

Josh, while I am sure you have seen it all in your long 5 month run on this site, isn't it a little bit silly to think that because YOU haven't heard of him that he has nothing to offer, or that his information is of lesser value than that of a veteran like yourself?
If you and the "newbies" haven't heard of him, then you are missing out. If this is the only site that you participate in, then perhaps you should venture out and see what else is out there. There are many different ideas about husbandry out there that you may never even read if you limit yourself to one source.
You keep hinting that if he had a site, or posts that he would have more credibility, and that all you have to go by is what he says. You also make mention that anyone could just make up a name and post whatever they want.
It's 2007, and the age of the internet is in full swing. It is just as easy to make up a profile, or a website as it is to make up a catchy user name. You say that all we have to go on is his name and his date of birth, so I was wondering, do you think it is difficult to make up a birthday when registering? I could come on here, and make up any name I want, and link to someone else's site, show pics, have a pretty avatar, and post nearly 500 posts in a handfull of months. Would I be looked at as more credible?
I think the best idea with threads like this is to look at the information given, and rather than attempt to discredit someone you know nothing about, share your own experiences. The better you support your ideas, the the better your side looks. You don't have to attack an individual to make your side look better. Simple proof of your success with your tried and true methods is often enough to lead even the newest of newbies to believe that your technique is the route they want to choose.
I know you mentioned in another post that I just showed up yesterday, and came only to support Gib. I would LOVE to hear why that was even mentioned. It's true, I did come here for just that reason. I wouldn't have known about this site if it weren't for your posts being shared in a group of experienced keepers. I think expanding the member base is good, regardless of how people get here. I am sorry that my first post was in support of someone rather than something on feeding, or posting a picture.By the way, I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on in my support in Chris if I didn't have 9 snakes from him. He sent me a group to see how I liked ball pythons.
You then mentioned Alicia (mooing). Again, I wonder what it has to do with anything? She has been here a while, and hasn't posted...and? So you woke a sleeping giant, and are upset by the outcome. Again, I'm sorry things didn't end up the way you had hoped, but that happens when you poke people. Alicia is one of those people who if you treat her right, will always be there for you, through thick and thin. She doesn't always have something to say, but when she does you can bet it is because she is passionate about what she is saying.At ties she makes me second guess my offline friends. You would be fortunate to have someone like her in your corner.
It really is too bad that you don't know of Chris. He really is a great guy, and I would bet that the reason he doesn't have a site is that he sells out every year without one. He doesn't post ads because he doesnt have to. He doesn't need a contact page on a glittery site for you to find him, because he is always around somewhere. I think he is estimating a year of 300 babies...I bet this time next year he doesn't have any left, and still won't have a site. I think I am rambling, so I will end this for now.

---

Davey Dude, use paragraphs man!!:8:
lol
love you davey!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Davey Dude, use paragraphs man!!:8:
lol
love you davey!

---

I have given up on indenting when posting. I try to break up thoughts into blocks,however on several forums I have tried indenting paragraphs only to have them all alligned left when posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm curious as to the weight on those large and jumbo rats. And what is the size of the BP eating them and how often.

---

The rats are 250-350 grams...The Balls eating them are in between 4 to 5 1/2 feet...They don't get big meals every week...Mainly before breeding and after they lay eggs to beef them back up...They are maintained on 150-200 gram rats...

All of these just ate 300 gram rats...

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...00grams001.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...00grams003.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...00grams004.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...00grams005.jpg

Fo sho, send me that lesser and ghost! :D

Just one note - from a novice and a newbie to the forums - despite the differing opinions on some issues, I find the site enormously informative, from husbandry to handling to feeding. I throughly enjoy reading posts by the experts and consider just about everyone more knowlegeable than I am.

Through all of that, I feel as though my dear bp is healthy and happy and I owe that to many of the folks on this site. I appreciate the varied points of view.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cheryls

Just one note - from a novice and a newbie to the forums - despite the differing opinions on some issues, I find the site enormously informative, from husbandry to handling to feeding. I throughly enjoy reading posts by the experts and consider just about everyone more knowlegeable than I am.

Through all of that, I feel as though my dear bp is healthy and happy and I owe that to many of the folks on this site. I appreciate the varied points of view.:)

---

Makes it all worth while to see post like yours. :)

I find it hard to believe that folks still argue on issues not even related to the topic of this thread but it is a lot of fun to read the posts.
Well ai fugured you may be interested to know that I moved up my 4mnth old girl from fuzzie mice to small rats. It nailed the rat right away and it took her good 20 min to swallow, but shte did.
Some of you may ask how come I didn move up to small or medium mice or rat pups and the answer is that at the Petco where I get my roddents from there are onlylarge mice or small rats. I bought one of each and the small rat was 80 grams versus the mouce which was 100grams. That actually turned out pretty good because I wanted to switch her to rats as most of you guys said. My snake weighted 164 grams before the meal and 242 after the meal . (the 2 grams were used up in the swallowing process which seemed to be quite energy consuming :D http://picasaweb.google.com/drugaria...34561495995714
http://picasaweb.google.com/drugaria...34286618088706
http://picasaweb.google.com/drugaria...34647395341650
That's a happy snake :snake: and a full stomach !