Questions to Digest

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Itty bitty dinos... hmm... Wonder why mammals and birds developed but snakes haven't...

lizards have, though? Bearded dragons seem to have the capacity to bond?

---

Meh. I bred beardies for quite a few years. In my experience they aren't the bonding type.

That said there are some lizards that show pretty decent intelligence for a reptile. Mostly monitors and tegus. And while they aren't lizards the crocodile family has some brainiacs (relatively speaking).

It tends to be the larger predators in the lizard family that have the smarts. I've seen nature documentaries where large monitors manipulate their environment such as turning over logs and knocking birds nests over in order to feed themselves.

I imagine irs because mammals and birds are the new commers on the evolutionary block. By the time they hit the ground there where already successful reptilian and amphibian species. The reptiles dominated for a while as the top predators and even the reptilian herbivores dominated the natural resources. It's very possible that early mammals evolved greater intelligence as a way to compete with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

*points at my rep bar* That wasn't you?

I thought that was a mod thing. If it isn't then I am wrong about that and I will apologize for that misunderstanding.

---

Before I continue reading the headache this thread is causing.
Your negative rep is the community as a whole. The MODs have no control over it...... YOUR peers do. ;)

Might be time for you to either thicken your skin or take a break. Honesty hurts when you dont want to hear the truth.
Deb isnt as blunt as some of us can be...... Im just tired of answering some of the same questions several times a week because people are too lazy to use the search bar for this site.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

...Deb isnt as blunt as some of us can be...

---

Yeah, you're the worst;p

*cowers*

I kid!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

i do NOT want live. O_O my ex had a BP when he was a kid he fed live and it traumatized the snake so much apparently it died. How true this is, I'm not sure, but it has me nervous enough to feed F/T...

---

This right here takes the cake..........SMH

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fraido

Yeah, you're the worst;p

*cowers*

I kid!

---

You know you love me :D

I'm pretty sure the +/- rep is done by anyone who has an account on the site, not the mods...

It's just if you get enough downvotes from other users, your rep goes down.

In other news on other topics, crocs are definitely quite intelligent and can bond, like Pocho... It's a fascinating story! It does seem to be the large predatory species who have the brains.

Ball pythons are unfortunately just on the primitive end of brains. They can learn through conditioning that handling is fine and maybe even who is safe and who isn't, but not "bond" with loyalty in the way that humans think of it.

(sorry if this was already mentioned before LOL)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You know you love me :D

---

Okok, I confess!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Omg.... "reptile dysfunction."

Ok I'm laughing... :8: That's actually funny.

---

It's just an automatic title on the site when you get enough downvotes/negative rep from other users... Not titling you in particular.

If anything, snakes are the stupid ones:rofl:

People in this community welcome new users, yes some are blunt but some people just are and you definitely shouldn't get offended over it.

Okay, you're over reading Wheatley waaayy too much. Is he your only pet? I know when I first got Karma the urge to just hold her all day was strong, but instead I just threw a ball for the dogs, took the guinea pigs out for playtime, etc. Snakes feel few emotion, but maybe if you had a pet(like a cat or a dog) that does have the capacity to feel a wide range of emotions it would be easier to understand that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

It's just an automatic title on the site when you get enough downvotes/negative rep from other users... Not titling you in particular.

---

I know. I wasn't being sarcastic, it actually made me laugh. "Reptile Dysfunction" // "Erectile Dysfunction"

please tell me I'm not the only one who got this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonBabes

If anything, snakes are the stupid ones:rofl:

People in this community welcome new users, yes some are blunt but some people just are and you definitely shouldn't get offended over it.

Okay, you're over reading Wheatley waaayy too much. Is he your only pet? I know when I first got Karma the urge to just hold her all day was strong, but instead I just threw a ball for the dogs, took the guinea pigs out for playtime, etc. Snakes feel few emotion, but maybe if you had a pet(like a cat or a dog) that does have the capacity to feel a wide range of emotions it would be easier to understand that?

---

It is my first pet. I get so much mixed information now, that I'm as well read on snakes as I am Horses... And I've gotten to the point that I hate horses.

im about to make a new post over something that happened. And I already know I'm going to get a lot of crap for it... >~<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

It is my first pet. I get so much mixed information now, that I'm as well read on snakes as I am Horses... And I've gotten to the point that I hate horses.

im about to make a new post over something that happened. And I already know I'm going to get a lot of crap for it... >~<

---

You probably will. You seem to push buttons with every thread you make. If you are trolling, you do a good job. You seem to enjoy stirring things up.

This thread has got me wondering if I've ever recieved any negative rep...

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fraido

This thread has got me wondering if I've ever recieved any negative rep...

---

You can check it in your user control panel.

All I can say about making a new thread is take peoples advice into
consideration instead of getting offended and lashing out... Some people on this forum have owned and bred BP's for years, they know what they're talking about. I keep hearing about your vet, but you came to this forum for advice, didn't you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You can check it in your user control panel.

---

It only shows the latest rep, though. Does it not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fraido

It only shows the latest rep, though. Does it not?

---

True I forgot about that. LoL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

True I forgot about that. LoL

---

.... you tried, top notch. 😉

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonBabes

All I can say about making a new thread is take peoples advice into
consideration instead of getting offended and lashing out... Some people on this forum have owned and bred BP's for years, they know what they're talking about.

---

KingWheatley, no worries about making new threads, but the bolded part is really the point... Even if you have doubts about advice given to you, just take it into consideration and take things in stride. And don't forget that this IS your first pet, apparently, and you haven't even had him for long. I know it's easy to really put all your love and passions and thoughts on your first and single pet. But however justified you think your actions are, taking it upon yourself to insult other members and get angry basically won't do anyone any good, and not just on forums!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

im about to make a new post over something that happened. And I already know I'm going to get a lot of crap for it... >~<

---

If you re-read this thread, you didn't get any crap at all in the beginning, just informed replies to your question. Then you decided that you didn't like what you heard, and insisted everything's fine and everything's great and all the replies are wrong, even though you started the thread with the question... That's really what happened here.

Even if you don't believe the suggestions/info from the replies, I promise that they're not personal insults... they're just responses and ideas to your snake questions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonBabes

All I can say about making a new thread is take peoples advice into
consideration instead of getting offended and lashing out... Some people on this forum have owned and bred BP's for years, they know what they're talking about. I keep hearing about your vet, but you came to this forum for advice, didn't you?

---

I did, yes. But there are things I'm convinced of that people seem to take it upon themselves to attempt to prove wrong in literally every thread I make. And then when provided with substantial supportive evidence it either gets ignored, overlooked, or put down.

the question I start off asking almost always has turned into an arguement about snakes having/not having emotions and accusations of anthropomorphism. With very few actually answering the intended question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

If you re-read this thread, you didn't get any crap at all in the beginning, just informed replies to your question. Then you decided that you didn't like what you heard, and insisted everything's fine and everything's great and all the replies are wrong, even though you started the thread with the question... That's really what happened here.

Even if you don't believe the suggestions/info from the replies, I promise that they're not personal insults... they're just responses and ideas to your snake questions.

---

Oh, no hun...

I wasn't at all saying ALL replies were wrong. In fact there are a few I thanked for their information they provided. A new way to look at things, and so on. If you note, one person literally said almost the same exact stuff as Deborah did, but without deragatory stuff, and I responded with a thank you and such.

A fault with me that exists with a lot of people: I respond better with patience and kindness. I respond to bluntness in kind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Oh, no hun...

I wasn't at all saying ALL replies were wrong. In fact there are a few I thanked for their information they provided. A new way to look at things, and so on. If you note, one person literally said almost the same exact stuff as Deborah did, but without deragatory stuff, and I responded with a thank you and such.

A fault with me that exists with a lot of people: I respond better with patience and kindness. I respond to bluntness in kind.

---

I don't see any thank yous on the first page, girl, just rebuttal of advice... That's where it started..

If you'd rather not consider what I'm saying either, then let's just take that in stride too... I'm just identifying the source of why your threads often seem to go wrong. Because if 99% of the threads on this forum are fine, chances are that the problem isn't the forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

What weight would be "big enough" for the "small" rats from petsmart? I'd order online but I don't know how they'd keep it frozen. I've seen some of the shipping facilities (I've worked at several) and the refrigerated/freezer trailers tend to fail quite frequently...? Unless they package them differently?

Do you have a favorite seller for feeder rodents?

---

Sorry I missed this earlier. My go-to is Big Cheese Rodents, but Perfect Prey, Layne Labs and American Rodent Supply are all reputable. Shipping can be prohibitive with only one snake, though, so I'm not sure if ordering frozen in bulk is the right option for you unless you have a spare freezer available.

As far as shipping frozen goes, as long as you order from someone with a good reputation, they have incentive to keep it that way. I've never had issues in any of my orders, and I live in Phoenix, AZ where the shipment may sit in 110+ temps outside before I get home and bring it inside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Mice don't have any capacity of intelligence other than running around, pooping, eating, and reproducing.

they are stupid animals that don't seem to recognize danger unless they are wild. It's as if they don't have any proper instincts at birth.

I may be mixing information about mice and hamsters though...

---

I've kept feeder rodents, you're mistaken. They certainly experience fear and learn routine. White mice have been selectively bred for certain traits that make medical research easier( more docile, less fearful). Comparing wild and lab rodents is to compare the instinctual differences between a poodle and a bit wolf.

Sent from my C6743 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPGator

There seems to be some confusion here with regards to the snake being stressed. A snake can be stressed due to improper environment to the point that it will refuse to eat because it does not feel secure. It can also be stressed temporarily while you are handling it, but will calm back down when returned to its enclosure. I seriously doubt your snake just can't wait to see you when you walk in the room and is so eager to be held by you. My BPs tolerate me. I'm pretty sure they're stressed out when I take them out - I can see their breathing increase and they try to slither away from me. They're not in total fear, or they'd probably stay balled up, but they want to find a place to hide. Your snake sounds healthy - it eats well, puts on weight and hides most of the day. But, when you take it out, it probably does get stressed, and may pass a bowel movement as a result.

I didn't realize PetSmart even sold feeders. If you want live, you're better off finding someone locally on Craigslist or a pet shop geared towards reptiles.


And as far as emotion goes:
noun 1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness.
2.any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.
3. any strong agitation of the feelings actuated by experiencing love, hate, fear, etc., and usually accompanied by certain physiological changes, as increased heartbeat or respiration, and often overt manifestation, as crying or shaking.

I suppose by this definition most animals have some level of emotion since they experience fear; it's a fundamental response for survival. Snakes do not love or hate. They do not feel sorrow or joy. These emotions would serve no purpose for a solitary animal like a ball python.

And lastly, chill out. People are just trying to help. If you disagree, then just disregard. If you're so reliant on what your vet says, why would you even ask the question here since you already know the answer and anything contradictory is wrong. Perhaps you'll realize one day that veterinarians and doctors don't always know what they're talking about. They have an extensive education, but use that to make an educated guess. They're not always right.

---

Very smart and accurate. Although being solitary doesn't negate intelligence or emotional capabilities. Male elephants are solitary while chickens live together.

Sent from my C6743 using Tapatalk

I'm going to get torn apart for this but Wheatley, we've had snakes on and off for
10 years but I am only just getting into ball pythons. My personal, unscientifically supported (probably wrong haha) opinion is that comparing intelligence is subjective. Mammals and birds have a large capacity for abstract learning whereas snakes brains focus on instinctual behaviors and learning. They become accustom to routine and flag smells and places in their brain( safety, danger, food). I feel like good handling and husbandry allows a positive label to be assigned to the handlers smell and sounds. I do 90% of our snake care and they react more positively to me than my boyfriend or child. My corn snake actually comes out of her hide only when I'm misting and watering and comes to the top of the cage. I open the top and she crawls onto my hand. Maybe its instinctual( most likely) but I pretend she wants to spend time with me. To answer your actual questions: you handle her on poop day, he poops. Do not assist feed an animal that is regularly accepting food. Try to switch to rats. It may be really easy for you.

Sent from my C6743 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micki

... Do not assist feed an animal that is regularly accepting food. Try to switch to rats.
Sent from my C6743 using Tapatalk

---

He eats fine right now. He's got a healthy food drive.

After a stressful event, I waited two days to feed him... and he was out both days trying to look for the food.

He's a little trooper [emoji24]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have read many of your posts, and I don't mean to offend, but I think you are "reading" your snake incorrectly. Think about a ball python's natural environment. They hide in holes in the ground and wait for food to come to them. Then don't explore for fun or because they're looking for their friend or owner. If they are "exploring," 99% of the time it's because they are looking for a safe place to hide and thermoregulate. To pretty much any ball python, being out in the open is a stressful event and always has a time limit (for most of mine this can range from 5 minutes to an hour before they start getting squirmy and looking for somewhere to hide).

Most snakes are highly misunderstood and this is typically the first mistake of a new owner. Everyone wants to handle their snake and think that they enjoy it. To me, the joy of owning snakes is providing them with a comfortable environment to thrive in and to earn their trust through safe handling. Even so, most of my BPs only come out once a week or so aside from cleaning. This is a big reason why I have multiple BPs, so that I can get my enjoyment of handling without overstressing them.

There is a ton of good advice on this forum from people who have tons of experience. Unfortunately, a lot of this good advice restricts what new owners want with their snakes (which is to treat them like a puppy). Please, just try to keep an open mind and consider what people are telling you.