Questions to Digest

[KingWheatley]

If you re-read this thread, you didn't get any crap at all in the beginning, just informed replies to your question. Then you decided that you didn't like what you heard, and insisted everything's fine and everything's great and all the replies are wrong, even though you started the thread with the question... That's really what happened here.

Even if you don't believe the suggestions/info from the replies, I promise that they're not personal insults... they're just responses and ideas to your snake questions.

Oh, no hun...

I wasn't at all saying ALL replies were wrong. In fact there are a few I thanked for their information they provided. A new way to look at things, and so on. If you note, one person literally said almost the same exact stuff as Deborah did, but without deragatory stuff, and I responded with a thank you and such.

A fault with me that exists with a lot of people: I respond better with patience and kindness. I respond to bluntness in kind.

[redshepherd]

Oh, no hun...

I wasn't at all saying ALL replies were wrong. In fact there are a few I thanked for their information they provided. A new way to look at things, and so on. If you note, one person literally said almost the same exact stuff as Deborah did, but without deragatory stuff, and I responded with a thank you and such.

A fault with me that exists with a lot of people: I respond better with patience and kindness. I respond to bluntness in kind.

I don't see any thank yous on the first page, girl, just rebuttal of advice... That's where it started..

If you'd rather not consider what I'm saying either, then let's just take that in stride too... I'm just identifying the source of why your threads often seem to go wrong. Because if 99% of the threads on this forum are fine, chances are that the problem isn't the forum.

[Eric Alan]

What weight would be "big enough" for the "small" rats from petsmart? I'd order online but I don't know how they'd keep it frozen. I've seen some of the shipping facilities (I've worked at several) and the refrigerated/freezer trailers tend to fail quite frequently...? Unless they package them differently?

Do you have a favorite seller for feeder rodents?

Sorry I missed this earlier. My go-to is Big Cheese Rodents, but Perfect Prey, Layne Labs and American Rodent Supply are all reputable. Shipping can be prohibitive with only one snake, though, so I'm not sure if ordering frozen in bulk is the right option for you unless you have a spare freezer available.

As far as shipping frozen goes, as long as you order from someone with a good reputation, they have incentive to keep it that way. I've never had issues in any of my orders, and I live in Phoenix, AZ where the shipment may sit in 110+ temps outside before I get home and bring it inside.

[Micki]

Mice don't have any capacity of intelligence other than running around, pooping, eating, and reproducing.

they are stupid animals that don't seem to recognize danger unless they are wild. It's as if they don't have any proper instincts at birth.

I may be mixing information about mice and hamsters though...

I've kept feeder rodents, you're mistaken. They certainly experience fear and learn routine. White mice have been selectively bred for certain traits that make medical research easier( more docile, less fearful). Comparing wild and lab rodents is to compare the instinctual differences between a poodle and a bit wolf.

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[Micki]

There seems to be some confusion here with regards to the snake being stressed. A snake can be stressed due to improper environment to the point that it will refuse to eat because it does not feel secure. It can also be stressed temporarily while you are handling it, but will calm back down when returned to its enclosure. I seriously doubt your snake just can't wait to see you when you walk in the room and is so eager to be held by you. My BPs tolerate me. I'm pretty sure they're stressed out when I take them out - I can see their breathing increase and they try to slither away from me. They're not in total fear, or they'd probably stay balled up, but they want to find a place to hide. Your snake sounds healthy - it eats well, puts on weight and hides most of the day. But, when you take it out, it probably does get stressed, and may pass a bowel movement as a result.

I didn't realize PetSmart even sold feeders. If you want live, you're better off finding someone locally on Craigslist or a pet shop geared towards reptiles.


And as far as emotion goes:
noun 1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness.
2.any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.
3. any strong agitation of the feelings actuated by experiencing love, hate, fear, etc., and usually accompanied by certain physiological changes, as increased heartbeat or respiration, and often overt manifestation, as crying or shaking.

I suppose by this definition most animals have some level of emotion since they experience fear; it's a fundamental response for survival. Snakes do not love or hate. They do not feel sorrow or joy. These emotions would serve no purpose for a solitary animal like a ball python.

And lastly, chill out. People are just trying to help. If you disagree, then just disregard. If you're so reliant on what your vet says, why would you even ask the question here since you already know the answer and anything contradictory is wrong. Perhaps you'll realize one day that veterinarians and doctors don't always know what they're talking about. They have an extensive education, but use that to make an educated guess. They're not always right.

Very smart and accurate. Although being solitary doesn't negate intelligence or emotional capabilities. Male elephants are solitary while chickens live together.

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[Micki]

I'm going to get torn apart for this but Wheatley, we've had snakes on and off for
10 years but I am only just getting into ball pythons. My personal, unscientifically supported (probably wrong haha) opinion is that comparing intelligence is subjective. Mammals and birds have a large capacity for abstract learning whereas snakes brains focus on instinctual behaviors and learning. They become accustom to routine and flag smells and places in their brain( safety, danger, food). I feel like good handling and husbandry allows a positive label to be assigned to the handlers smell and sounds. I do 90% of our snake care and they react more positively to me than my boyfriend or child. My corn snake actually comes out of her hide only when I'm misting and watering and comes to the top of the cage. I open the top and she crawls onto my hand. Maybe its instinctual( most likely) but I pretend she wants to spend time with me. To answer your actual questions: you handle her on poop day, he poops. Do not assist feed an animal that is regularly accepting food. Try to switch to rats. It may be really easy for you.

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[KingWheatley]

... Do not assist feed an animal that is regularly accepting food. Try to switch to rats.
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He eats fine right now. He's got a healthy food drive.

After a stressful event, I waited two days to feed him... and he was out both days trying to look for the food.

He's a little trooper


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[treaux]

I have read many of your posts, and I don't mean to offend, but I think you are "reading" your snake incorrectly. Think about a ball python's natural environment. They hide in holes in the ground and wait for food to come to them. Then don't explore for fun or because they're looking for their friend or owner. If they are "exploring," 99% of the time it's because they are looking for a safe place to hide and thermoregulate. To pretty much any ball python, being out in the open is a stressful event and always has a time limit (for most of mine this can range from 5 minutes to an hour before they start getting squirmy and looking for somewhere to hide).

Most snakes are highly misunderstood and this is typically the first mistake of a new owner. Everyone wants to handle their snake and think that they enjoy it. To me, the joy of owning snakes is providing them with a comfortable environment to thrive in and to earn their trust through safe handling. Even so, most of my BPs only come out once a week or so aside from cleaning. This is a big reason why I have multiple BPs, so that I can get my enjoyment of handling without overstressing them.

There is a ton of good advice on this forum from people who have tons of experience. Unfortunately, a lot of this good advice restricts what new owners want with their snakes (which is to treat them like a puppy). Please, just try to keep an open mind and consider what people are telling you.