Are ball pythons a domesticated species?

[MarkS]

Domestication as its asked involves humans selectively breading to produce an animal that is significantly different from the wild base animal

I don't see that at all in many animals that have long been considered to be 'domesticated' Even a quick glance at most poultry will show that many of the ducks, geese or turkeys are NOT significantly different then their wild counterparts. In some cases, not even the paint job is different. The only difference being that some of them are living in the wild, and some of them are living in farmyards... Physically, many of them are identical.

In this case assumptions are fine. Animals are wild until proven otherwise, not the other way around. No there is no iron clad proof or legal definition. There rarely is. Its not arbitrary, we are looking at the various definitions of the word and deciding what we think.

Actually, animals are NOT wild until proven otherwise... I think that the main criteria should be WHERE THEY ARE FOUND IN THE FIRST PLACE....... I tend to think of animals FOUND in the wild as wild animals, however I tend to think of animals FOUND in my basement where I have been breeding, feeding and caring for them through many generations to NOT be wild animals.

You seem to really disagree with the assertion that they are not domestic but all you have put forth so far is the various morphs as evidence.

I've re-read my posts, and I don't see where you can even make the assumptions that you are. No, I DON'T 'really disagree with the assertion that they are not domestic' at all. That's YOUR preconceived notions that are coloring your comments. I've merely been questioning why people have been SO adamant that their snakes are wild animals. It seems to me that the main reason people have been putting forth the argument that ball pythons are NOT domesticated, is because they don't WANT them to be domesticated and for no other reason. I have not heard a reasonable argument on EITHER side of the argument about why they either should or should not be considered domesticated. Personally I would rather not label them either way until I have a more thorough understanding of what 'domestication' actually is.......

I would have to say that morphs do not alone show domestication. I will give you that they are a result of selective breading but so far all we have done is change the colors of the animal.

And I would put forth that this IS a good reason to suspect that they are a domesticated species. You can NOT selectively breed wild animals. Wild animals will choose their own mates. Only a domesticated animal could be forced to mate with another that was not of it's own choosing.

As it stands most ball pythons kept in captivity are no different than snakes one generation from the wild. We have not significantly changed their genetics, behavior or appearance.

See my earlier statement on poultry. Many of the accepted 'domesticated' lines can not be differentiated from their wild counterparts. The only difference is in their upbringing. The only real difference between captive bred ball pythons and captive bred turkeys is that turkeys have been bred in captivity for a few hundred years longer. In any kind of evolutionary timeline, that's extremely insignificant.

I will definitely agree that as far as snakes go ball pythons are the most domesticated of them all. But that's not saying much.

Well, except for maybe cornsnakes, kingsnakes, and several dozen other species of colubrids that have been captive bred for over a dozen generations.