Genetic "flaws" associated with various morphs?

[Lucas339]

well if you guys would quit feeding the spiders burbon soaked feeders they'd be fine! its just a myth on that being a trick to getting them to eat!

[wilomn]

i too like to gamble only i disagree stongly with euthinizing an animal that can live even if it is defected. just because the animal isn't going to make you money (and in this case this is what it boils down to) by being a breeder doesn't mean you should kill it. as a breeder it is your responsibility to care for this animal! ralph davis does it! and i saw a you tube video of a guy (not sure but it might be davis) who had several kinked carmels that he kept because they eat and poop and shed fine but he doesn't breed them. don't forget that we are supposed to be breeding because we love these animals and if you are doing it for the money, then get another hobby! i HIGHLY disagree with putting an animal down if it can't be a breeder.

Interesting take on things. Are you really saying that as a breeder, one who is NOT in it for the money (HA), that you feel no responsibility to better the breed by culling those with obvious defects?

If you actually LISTEN to ralphs video with the caramels he never says he WON'T breed them. Which means he might which means he probably has.

And phthbbbtt to you and your condemning anyone who breeds just for money. Who the bloody hell are YOU to tell anyone what to do? Don't your very heros sell reptiles for money? LLL, broker and NOT a breeder and KNOWN to sell crap disguised as snakes.

BHB is the model all of you should be emulating, especially those of you, like this guy I quoted, who don't know spit from shinola.

[broadude]

Interesting take on things. Are you really saying that as a breeder, one who is NOT in it for the money (HA), that you feel no responsibility to better the breed by culling those with obvious defects?

If you actually LISTEN to ralphs video with the caramels he never says he WON'T breed them. Which means he might which means he probably has.

And phthbbbtt to you and your condemning anyone who breeds just for money. Who the bloody hell are YOU to tell anyone what to do? Don't your very heros sell reptiles for money? LLL, broker and NOT a breeder and KNOWN to sell crap disguised as snakes.

BHB is the model all of you should be emulating, especially those of you, like this guy I quoted, who don't know spit from shinola.

Ahhh paraphrasing in that last statement, I see! But I happen to agree with you.

[Wh00h0069]

i too like to gamble only i disagree stongly with euthinizing an animal that can live even if it is defected. just because the animal isn't going to make you money (and in this case this is what it boils down to) by being a breeder doesn't mean you should kill it. as a breeder it is your responsibility to care for this animal! ralph davis does it!

Do you honestly believe that Ralph Davis keeps and takes care of all of the deformed animals that he produces?

[wilomn]

Do you honestly believe that Ralph Davis keeps and takes care of all of the deformed animals that he produces?

Well, there are the kinked caramels. But I too seriously doubt he keeps the less expensive morphs that hatch deformed.

[Lucas339]

Interesting take on things. Are you really saying that as a breeder, one who is NOT in it for the money (HA), that you feel no responsibility to better the breed by culling those with obvious defects?

I see where you are coming from with this. these lines need to be cleaned up a bit so to speak. there are carmels out there without kinks and spiders that don't show spinning or wobbels as much as others. i feel extra care should go into breeding these morphs to keep these defects from happening. less sibXsib breeding with these.

If you actually LISTEN to ralphs video with the caramels he never says he WON'T breed them. Which means he might which means he probably has.?

i don't know ralph personally nor do i speak for him or against him. i was unaware that it was him in the video. but i would think that a breeder as large as ralph woudn't have to breed the defected animals as he probably has many unkinked ones in his collection. i was simply pointing out the fact that a breeder as large as he shows compasion to these animals and doesn't kill them becasue of defects.

And phthbbbtt to you and your condemning anyone who breeds just for money. Who the bloody hell are YOU to tell anyone what to do? Don't your very heros sell reptiles for money? LLL, broker and NOT a breeder and KNOWN to sell crap disguised as snakes.

im not condemning anyone just stating what i belive on this matter. it is a sore subject with me the way some people just kill animals because and only because they won't make good breeders. in my post you will notice i did say if they will have a hard time living or are prone to issues then something should be done. i am a biologist and value all living things defected or not. heck i even have a hard time killing feeders.

and i never backed LLL in anyway. i only stated that they were a broker.

BHB is the model all of you should be emulating, especially those of you, like this guy I quoted, who don't know spit from shinola.

i agree with you fully on this! again i never said a bad word about BHB. not sure if this was directed at me.

[Lucas339]

Do you honestly believe that Ralph Davis keeps and takes care of all of the deformed animals that he produces?

on his site he shows a albino with a pretty bad duckbill and it states that it was kept alive. for him this would be a less expensive animal.

again i should state that im in no way defending ralph or anything. im just saying i say the kinked carmel video and a post on his stie about the duckbill albino.

[littleindiangirl]

I certainly dont see a need to cull an animal that lives, eats, poops and sheds like the rest of my animals, however I do wonder when these deformities start to hurt the animal, and when it is no longer humane to keep them alive. How could I tell that the animal was in pain?

That's my whole view on it, luckily I have never had to deal with the task of deciding what is best for a deformed or sick animal that can't express it's unease.

[rabernet]

I see where you are coming from with this. these lines need to be cleaned up a bit so to speak. there are carmels out there without kinks and spiders that don't show spinning or wobbels as much as others. i feel extra care should go into breeding these morphs to keep these defects from happening. less sibXsib breeding with these.

Just as an FYI - rarely does anyone breed spider siblings together - in fact, being classified (thus far) as a dominant trait, it's one of the most out-crossed morphs. To make more spiders, you only need to breed to normals.

Just as a low white pied can throw high white and vice versa, spiders with very minimal wobblers can throw trainwrecks, and trainwrecks can throw low wobblers.

[Lucas339]

robin-very true. i was more speaking of the carmel albinos than the spiders.