Is there a way to tell het pied on appearance?

[asplundii]

Like everyone is saying, this is definetlely not cut and dry, especially since there is no sequenced genom information on ball pythons and we really have no idea what genes are actually responsible for what mutation.

Hey if someone is willing to fund me a grant I'd be more than happy to do the wetwork to get the sequence . IIRC a single run on one of the next-gen sequencer systems (SOLiD, Illumina) is around $20K (~8 samples/run). Figure in having to build up new chips since it is an untapped organism so make it $50K for first run and to establish the WT baseline. And then a second run on a pied animal to get the mutation isolated, that is another $20K. And then add in a large margin for fudge and we'll cal lit $85K total.

Anyone got $85K laying around LOL??

[broadude]

Hey if someone is willing to fund me a grant I'd be more than happy to do the wetwork to get the sequence . IIRC a single run on one of the next-gen sequencer systems (SOLiD, Illumina) is around $20K (~8 samples/run). Figure in having to build up new chips since it is an untapped organism so make it $50K for first run and to establish the WT baseline. And then a second run on a pied animal to get the mutation isolated, that is another $20K. And then add in a large margin for fudge and we'll cal lit $85K total.

Anyone got $85K laying around LOL??

If all breeders could kick in 1K it would be doable.

[asplundii]

If all breeders could kick in 1K it would be doable.

I am sure it would

Heck, if I could get enough interest I'd shot to get all the morphs sequenced. I'd love to see how the clusters of related mutations sort out. (i.e. lesser/mojo/phantom, black paster/cinny, all the hypos, the axanthics...)

[Lexcorn]

Original post by asplundii

Personally, I am more inclined to think that serious breeder are being quite selective and that is obvious in the fact that they do not sell crap animals like $75 pastels and $300 lessers. Any closet breeder can slap two animals together for the intent of making a quick buck and co-coms are a great way to do that cause you get instant results. Investing a couple thousand in a pied is a little different (at least to me).

Yup, one of many good points in your posts.

A good debate on the pied 'marker'.

It is quite a reasonable hypothesis that the 'marker' is, indeed, due to selective breeding. A thought that cannot be completely overlooked.

Excellent examples of the b.p. ventral to highlight the discussion.


Lex

[kthulhu]

Hey if someone is willing to fund me a grant I'd be more than happy to do the wetwork to get the sequence . IIRC a single run on one of the next-gen sequencer systems (SOLiD, Illumina) is around $20K (~8 samples/run). Figure in having to build up new chips since it is an untapped organism so make it $50K for first run and to establish the WT baseline. And then a second run on a pied animal to get the mutation isolated, that is another $20K. And then add in a large margin for fudge and we'll cal lit $85K total.

Anyone got $85K laying around LOL??

Haha yea I wish I had some extra grant money laying around. Man I'm so glad I work with bacteria and only have to worry about only two chromosomes! Hey and while you're at it, go ahead and start synthesizing some RNAi and make some random new morphs lol. Gotta love genetics!

[asplundii]

Gotta love genetics!

Yes indeed Nothing like the ATGC to fill your days LOL

Haha yea I wish I had some extra grant money laying around

You and I should combine our knowledge and start a business LOL

[DrLew]

And THAT my friends - is the only way to tell a het pied.......

Hey if someone is willing to fund me a grant I'd be more than happy to do the wetwork to get the sequence . IIRC a single run on one of the next-gen sequencer systems (SOLiD, Illumina) is around $20K (~8 samples/run). Figure in having to build up new chips since it is an untapped organism so make it $50K for first run and to establish the WT baseline. And then a second run on a pied animal to get the mutation isolated, that is another $20K. And then add in a large margin for fudge and we'll cal lit $85K total.

Anyone got $85K laying around LOL??

[RandyRemington]

Here is one of my keepers this year.



One of her great great grandparents was a pied. Of course it will take me a few more years to get her up to size to see if my hunch that she has a better than 12.5% chance of being a het pied is accurate. Sure the marker could be a separate gene that has been passed down through 4 consecutive generations of outbreeding. However, to me it looks very pied like and I've seen pictures of some of her aunts that are so extreme markered with the white starting to move up the side that they could pass for low white pieds. Remember that pieds have white bellies and only vary by how much the white expands onto the back (or maybe more accurate to say how much the pigment doesn't extend down). Based on these observations I believe that the marker belly is an expression of a single pied mutation and not a separate gene. The guy I got her father from reports that all of his 25% chance het pied sisters with the markers have proven so technically my girl is now upgraded to 25% chance het pied since her aunts proved her 50% chance het pied markered grandfather.

[Lexcorn]

She's a beauty Randy,

Certainly well worth holding onto not only for test breeding for confirmation of the 'marker' trait, but, also for her obvious quality.

It will be some time before you are able to up date us on this girl though.

Good luck with her.

Lex

[Brandon Osborne]

Randy, that is a perfect example of a het Pied marker. Everyone needs to look close at the belly, not just the stripes on the sides of the belly. Het Pied markers are different than the normals with " marker" bellies. I would put money on that animal being 100% het. Like I said before, it's not just about the stripes and the belly.

Brandon Osborne

Here is one of my keepers this year.



One of her great great grandparents was a pied. Of course it will take me a few more years to get her up to size to see if my hunch that she has a better than 12.5% chance of being a het pied is accurate. Sure the marker could be a separate gene that has been passed down through 4 consecutive generations of outbreeding. However, to me it looks very pied like and I've seen pictures of some of her aunts that are so extreme markered with the white starting to move up the side that they could pass for low white pieds. Remember that pieds have white bellies and only vary by how much the white expands onto the back (or maybe more accurate to say how much the pigment doesn't extend down). Based on these observations I believe that the marker belly is an expression of a single pied mutation and not a separate gene. The guy I got her father from reports that all of his 25% chance het pied sisters with the markers have proven so technically my girl is now upgraded to 25% chance het pied since her aunts proved her 50% chance het pied markered grandfather.