i posted a ton of pics in the field herping section about a garter that ate a leopard frog in my back yard this summer... i can tell you that the garter was definitely venomous to some extent because the frog was seriously comatose after just a couple minutes of being chewed on. it went from shrieking and lunging to literally just having a glazed-over look and not moving, right before my eyes... it was pretty interesting. just another example of the duvernois gland and how it works. on the flip side, if i were to take a bite from that same snake i would have zero effect... in fact, i think i probably have been bitten by that same snake or possibly one related to it.