Why not rear-fanged colubrids?

[Skiploder]

Your posts have been read, Skip.

[Colin Vestrand]

i posted a ton of pics in the field herping section about a garter that ate a leopard frog in my back yard this summer... i can tell you that the garter was definitely venomous to some extent because the frog was seriously comatose after just a couple minutes of being chewed on. it went from shrieking and lunging to literally just having a glazed-over look and not moving, right before my eyes... it was pretty interesting. just another example of the duvernois gland and how it works. on the flip side, if i were to take a bite from that same snake i would have zero effect... in fact, i think i probably have been bitten by that same snake or possibly one related to it.

[Hardwikk]

I meant that I read your comments on my posts. Everyone's got a nick-name.

[Skiploder]

I meant that I read your comments on my posts. Everyone's got a nick-name.

Gotcha.

[whytepizza]

I'm sorry, you are right, i did not mean venemoid. One of those long days at the office My mind was wandering. I meant venemous.

Venemoid - A venomoid is a snake that has ungone a surgical procedure to remove or inhibit the production of venom. Is this what you meant?

There have been studies on heterodon venom, and the toxic components have been identified. They are venomous - it's been verified - there are no intelligent or valid aguments against this fact.

But the fact also remains that they are harmless to humans.

Regarding confirmed deaths from rear-fanged colubrids....... ..There have been documented deaths from the bites of Dispholidus and Thelatornis. Thrasops have the exact same venom as Dispholidus.....so infer from that what you will............

Philodryas have caused deaths, as have Rhabdophis. There are others who have been identified as having the potential, under the right circumstances, to be considered lethal.

Proposed bans can be logically turned back if people take the time to actually research and educate others on the argument. Again - all colubrids, with the exception of the pits, lampropeltis and pantherophis (et al) produce venom. This is not open for debate - it is a fact. Arguing that reactions to hognose bites are from "allergies" is misleading and leads to further confusion.

.....FWIW, in forums where people discuss the nature of venom, the evolution of venom and it's effects, the components of rear-fanged snake venom (and colubrids in general) are compared to those of the vipers and elapids. It's the delivery system that mutes the threat, not the toxicity or complexity of the venom.

Again, properly defining the potential threats of some of the more potentially dangerous animals will go farther in ensuring that we can keep our heterodon and other harmless (but yes - venomous) rear fanged colubrids in the future. Making blanket statements that, with the exception of Dispholidus, rear fangs are harmless, may result in someone being killed. In the long run, this is an even greater threat to our hobby.

The info is out there. We can classify some opisthoglyphs as "hots", some as "warm" and some as "cold". But first we have discuss facts - not myths.

We largely create our own problems in this hobby. We do a bad job of policing each other and in the end, all of us get hurt. Promoting that all opisthoglyphs are all harmless and can be safely freehandled is a perfect example of this.

[Clyde Frog]

I personally thought it was just because there is a colubrids section so I just assumed the creator intended for the rear-fanged colubrid discussions to take place in the colubrid section.

[Clyde Frog]

I should probably add in that I hardly know what a rear-fanged colubrid would consist of (species wise) so it makes sense in my head.