Am I cruel for doing this???

[MiniJ83]

I think it's cruel because it was done for fun. Watching two of your pets fight, no matter how "harmless" it may be, is just not right. It wasn't done for breeding purposes, it was done out of curiousity.

My new kitten is scared to death of the vacuum. Would it physically hurt him if I chased him around the house with it? No. But it's still cruel.

[Peter Williams]

Heeey, now theres an idea to get my bee to breed....he'd probably lose though...

[Spaniard]

No where does the original poster mention they did this for fun. For all we know they could want some first hand observations on male combat in bps. I don't think its wrong to want to witness something about our snake's behaviors.

It has a purpose when it comes to breeding but I don't think its the only valid reason to want to see it first hand. To view, learn, respect and gain a greater knowledge of these animals is not a crime in my book.

If they were to make a routine of doing this just for kicks and giving their buddies a show, then I would have a problem with it.

[Morphie]

it's not cruel at all.

You put them in a situation that, although perhaps stressful, caused them no harm - which is, to some extent, quite similar to handling them.

Enjoying watching nature take its course is normal. Humans are naturally curious and fascinated by the world around them - have you ever seen a chimp notice something unusual in his environment? He can't stop looking at it until he feels he understands it. There's nothing wrong with being entertained by this process.

I don't know why people think that these snakes have to live in as mundane an environment as we can possibly make for them or else they're being abused, or why people should need to feel ashamed for being fascinated by their natural behaviors.

No harm, no foul.

I wouldn't battle them EVERY DAY, or even every week or month, but every once in a while for their stimulation and your personal enjoyment is not a big deal if you're keeping an eye on things and making sure it's not getting out of hand. Obviously, if they naturally separate and go their own ways, don't keep forcing them back together or anything like that.

[kellysballs]

I dont believe you are cruel for doing this. I see absolutely no harm in what you did. You were curious and you learned from the experience, the animals where not harmed and all is fine now.

As for comparing this to a dog fight, ah... no that is way to far of a stretch. To be nice lets just call it apples and oranges.

[RandyRemington]

When this copperhead study first came out I swear I read that the looser males didn't breed until the next year but all I'm finding now is "suppression of sexual behavior" for 7 days and increased stress hormones for an hour:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3079119

At any rate, I'd worry about letting a male combat that he might loose and the impact on the male ego might affect his breeding.

[AjBalls]

I think it's cruel because it was done for fun. Watching two of your pets fight, no matter how "harmless" it may be, is just not right. It wasn't done for breeding purposes, it was done out of curiousity.

Hey, I could toss boxing & cage fighting are cruel too. That's not 'harmless' and people sure seem to enjoy it. Those fighters have parents and they most likely watch. They'd probably be cheering for their kid when winning then in the 'omg' phase when they're losing. What purpose does that serve?

Now I know that's a bit off topic but oh well.

Ball pythons, I have never heard of an animal being hurt while combating.

Retics, I've heard it plenty. Retic males will kill each other. No one combats them because of it, but stuff happens Heard of them escaping out of their cage and opening another males cage and kill each other end up at the vet for many stitches.

[snakemanjayd]

What did they mean by fighting?
Surely they just meant ritual combat/wrestling, which is what they do in the wild, perfectly natural, and sometimes done to encourage one male to mate.

If the one snake was biting the other, then sure stop it, but if they were just wrestling, then what was all the fuss about?
Seriously?

[AjBalls]

What did they mean by fighting?
Surely they just meant ritual combat/wrestling, which is what they do in the wild, perfectly natural, and sometimes done to encourage one male to mate.

More than likely that is what they meant.

If you play that whole "in the wild" card, people will tell you "they're not in the wild!".

[rabernet]

When this copperhead study first came out I swear I read that the looser males didn't breed until the next year but all I'm finding now is "suppression of sexual behavior" for 7 days and increased stress hormones for an hour:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3079119

At any rate, I'd worry about letting a male combat that he might loose and the impact on the male ego might affect his breeding.

Randy, the Barkers address this in their book, that they don't battle their males, because they've found that all too often, the loser will not breed after that. I remember it being a significant amount of time, but I'd have to go back and look it up, and I'm headed out the door to work right now.