Am I cruel for doing this???

[snakemanjayd]

More than likely that is what they meant.

If you play that whole "in the wild" card, people will tell you "they're not in the wild!".

Alright, I get that, but it's not like you are subjecting them to unusual or cruel behavior. It does happen in the wild, and it's natural and the snakes don't get hurt.
I think people have a strange idea of what cruelty is these days.
They personify everything too far...
Don't get me wrong, I love my animals too, but there is a line.

As for them not breeding for a while after that, that is a good practical reason for you not to do it as a breeder, if you intend to breed both of them.
But not an ethical reason.

[Muze]

When this copperhead study first came out I swear I read that the looser males didn't breed until the next year but all I'm finding now is "suppression of sexual behavior" for 7 days and increased stress hormones for an hour:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3079119

At any rate, I'd worry about letting a male combat that he might loose and the impact on the male ego might affect his breeding.

Actually, in BPs, the loser will be just as likely to breed after combat as the winner would be. I put four males in accidentally the other day (in 2 different tubs, of course. Thought two were females) & the losers went straight into (properly sexed)females' tubs & locked up that same night.

[Muze]

I will add that I will not put two males together on purpose. I did feel really bad because the 'winners' are two 'Normals' which I am not going to breed now, and they looked like they were really anxious after the combat.

[Microddot]

I have never seen two males "fight". Does anyone have video of this? I would really like to see it.

[AjBalls]

YouTube - Ball Python Combat

[Microddot]

Thanks, Thats no pit bull fight. I don't see anything wrong with that. I wanted to see it once, and now i am good. I probably will never use it as a breeding starter, but it is neat. I like to see what they do in the wild.

[MDPythons]

I did this for a few min with a pastel and normal....pastel lost...I put him with a female and within 15 min they were locked and it lasted for 2 days straight.

I did it again and pastel lost...put him with another normal...and locked within 30 minutes for 1 day.

I plan on doing this again with some other males before I pair them up. It seems to stimulate breeding and it definitely works. It happens in the wild and it's contained and safer (not that I have ever heard of anything happening) while you are right there. I don't see anything fun about it but if it makes breeding occur that much faster then I'm all for it and I don't see anything wrong with it.

[AjBalls]

Yes. That's cruel. It's no different than putting two dogs into a pit to fight.

Just so the rest of you are thinking the same way as I am...

He was not referring to PIT BULLS fighting. He said putting dogs into a pit, as in a fighting ring.




Sorry, I'm a pit bull lover and don't like the stereotypes thing.......

[MarkS]

You know people, they're really not made of delicate crystal, I see nothing wrong with combating your males to help induce breeding, or even just out of curiosity. It is a pretty interesting behavior to observe. There are SOME species of snakes that can get rather violent with each other and cut each other up pretty good (I believe that GTP's are known to do this) But I've never heard of it being a problem with ball pythons. I've successfully used this a few times in the past myself to get reluctant breeders jump started and was amazed by how well it worked, I've usually found that even the loser was a good breeder afterward.

Of course if you want to have a really good time, just invite all of your dentally challenged erythematous naped buddies over and place wagers on the outcome... And let the good times roll........

[4theSNAKElady]

To clarify, I didn't do it for personal enjoyment. And it's NOTHING like dog fighting. With dogs they're trained to kill, and much blood is spent, lives sopmetimes lost.I didn't just "throw them together to duke it out". I've never seen the behavior, and I wanted to witness it myself.It was just for a few minutes. Besides, they didn't hurt each other, and why is it cruel to let them experience something they'd do in nature?? Besides, I have a female waiting in the wings for one of them.

P.S. - thank you Jo! Now I don't feel like such a terrible person!!!