I am not a believer -do you think you can convert me?

[JLC]

It is amazing how you really cannot tell what a person is feeling when you converse over the internet. For instance, you used a at the end of your post. I am quite sure you were implying that you enjoyed the opportunity to join this discussion. However, at first I was thinking... what, did she just wink at me as if to say nice try buddy, quit being such a jerk. This is why I keep telling my mom and my sister to stop confronting each other over email... lol. I guess that is why it has taken me until I am 27 to use a forum.

Jimmy

Much truth here....and my little winky face is always meant as a genuine smile and a wink. There are some days when I can type with perfect diplomacy....and other days I'm feeling a bit tired and/or grumpy and words come out more abruptly than I'd like...but I very rarely ever intend to be abrupt or sharp with anyone....and when I intend to, it's usually pretty unmistakable.

This IS a good discussion and one I'm not offended by or bothered by and have enjoyed participating in. It's always good to take the time to remind folks reading these threads that there are REASONS why we suggest the things we do...even if those reasons aren't always given every single time.

[jimmyfoxca]

Okay, perhaps I approached this the wrong way and for that I apologize. I get the impression that I sounded a little arrogant or something. I still want to discuss the main points. Let me reword this:

Title: Looking to expand my skills.

I have often heard people on the internet say:

1. Ball pythons need to have two identical hides. One on the cool side and one on the hot side. This is because if they prefer one over the other they will not thermoregulate properly. They will choose security over their own well being.

2. If an enclosure is to big, the snake may become stressed out and refuse food. Thus, you should get a smaller enclosure or put lots of extra hiding spaces.

Are there other ways to provide a naturalistic enclosure for ball pythons without sacrificing their health or security. If so, what are they. This would be a good thread to debate the pros and cons of the standard method of husbandry and any other options.

Jimmy

[jimmyfoxca]

It's always good to take the time to remind folks reading these threads that there are REASONS why we suggest the things we do...even if those reasons aren't always given every single time.

I think I am the type of person who wishes to learn the why behind the things I am learning. I think it originates from having a mom who always said, "because I said so". It is amazing the effects our parents can have on us. Even years after the fact lol.

Jimmy

[halfwaynowhere]

The "accepted" husbandry works. Other husbandry techniques can work, too. But its so easy and inexpensive to set them up with a tried and true method, that especially for a beginner, there should be no reason to have problems from the very beginning. Deviating from those "rules" is fine as long as you can still provide a safe and healthy environment for your animal.

[jimmyfoxca]

The "accepted" husbandry works. Other husbandry techniques can work, too. But its so easy and inexpensive to set them up with a tried and true method, that especially for a beginner, there should be no reason to have problems from the very beginning. Deviating from those "rules" is fine as long as you can still provide a safe and healthy environment for your animal.

True. I would also add that beginners could learn a lot from reading discussions such as these. After all, if it were only beginners who used this forum, it would not be doing as well as it is .

Jimmy

[Oxylepy]

I consider myself to have impeccable husbandry and QT, and I firmly believe that I know enough about BPs to keep them healthy and thriving, but my first snake died from years of improper husbandry.

I got him and the information on how to keep him from someone that was doing everything counter to what was suggested. She just knew what it was he wanted and liked VS. what was considered gospel. I continued that. When I came online and found out it was all "wrong" I was indignant.

Snake was happy, snake was lovely, snake was eager to "play". Well snake died, and this was after I implemented proper husbandry and got him eating and unlearned all this misinformation.

I was wondering what it was that you were doing wrong. While the information may be of a sad nature I believe that it is through the mistakes of the past that one can learn the most. When shown what will lead to negative outcomes we may see the severity of bad husbandry.

[Ophiuchus]

Its this simple:

There are two major ways to determine a snake's health and stress level: their feeding history and their shed history.

1.) Snakes that are unhealthy do not shed in one piece.
2.) Snakes that are stressed do not eat.

If they are not eating, and/or if they are shedding in patches, there is some flaw in how they are kept (aside from perhaps being handled way too often).

That said, if you have a snake that is shedding good and eating good, you're doing something right and probably don't need to worry about changing anything.

Its a hobby, not a science. What works for some doesn't work for everyone. Just let your snakes tell you if you're keeping them right.

[Muze]

I think this is a good discussion. I learned every aspect of snake husbandry pretty much from this and a couple of other forums. And because I was (& still am) a newbie, I stick to what the veterans tell me to do. As I've acquired more experience, and gotten to know each of my snakes on an individual level (because they each have their own quirks), I have modified things here & there. But I am a firm believer in 'learning to walk (or crawl) before you can run'. Especially when I am dealing with living creatures.

I will not go over the original questions again since everyone has done such a great job with them. I will only say that I feed all of my 15 BPs F/T without refusals. They all strike and coil. I prefer to feed F/T. IMHO, it is a matter of preference. If you prefer to feed live & are willing to sit there and watch to make sure there are no injuries (because there can & have been. This is not the wild. The snake is TRAPPED in a relatively small enclosure with a scared rodent), then go ahead and feed live. If you prefer to feed F/T and are willing to take the time to thouroughly defrost the prey item and to mimic live prey for the snake, then go ahead and feed F/T. I don't really think one way is better than the other. The success of the feeding method lies in the manner in which it is executed. An unattended live feeding is a possible injury (maybe death) waiting to happen. A partially thawed prey item is indigestion (possibly death) waiting to happen.

[Wh00h0069]

I do not use hides in my enclosures; although, I do not keep my ball pythons in glass aquariums either. I keep all of my ball pythons in tubs (rack systems.) These tubs are tight, and dark, so I do not believe that hides are necessary.

At one time, I had a ball python that I kept in a 20 long glass enclosure. At about six years of age, I moved him into a 90 glass aquarium with one hide on the hot side. He was fine for about two weeks, but then he stopped eating. After about two months, I added a hide to the cool side, which was not the same type as the other hide. He used the second hide occasionally. He still would not eat. He did not eat for approximately six to eight months. I decided to move him into a rack system, because people told me that it may help. By the end of that week, he was eating again. He has eaten every two weeks since then. That was about two years ago.

At this point, I own 34 ball pythons, which I house in tubs. All eat without issue.

I will not comment on the use of hides, because I do not use them. I will say that if a ball python becomes stress out, he or she will not eat. I do know that if a ball python is kept in a large glass aquarium, it will most likely become stressed out.

I feed all of my ball pythons live rats, and none has ever been harmed. I do not feed them anything larger than small rats.

Hope this answers your questions.

[casperca]

2. If an enclosure is to big, the snake may become stressed out and refuse food. Thus, you should get a smaller enclosure or put lots of extra hiding spaces.

This is an excellent thread Jimmy. Thank you for bringing these points up. I agree with what others have said already, but would like to add something that hasn't been mentioned (or I missed when reading) in regard to #2. Often, the bigger the enclosure, the more difficult it is to keep the temperature gradient and humidity constant and in the proper ranges. If the snake doesn't have these choices available to him/her, he/she is likely to go off feed just as if they are freaking out because they have nowhere to hide. This suggestion is often made in order to prevent both of these potential problems.