Super Cinny x Blue Eyed Lucy

[jknudson]

I don't think that's true, anyone here have actual experience breeding a BEL X Normal to give us answers?

I'll put it this way...

If you breed a Super Lesser to a normal... you get ALL lessers. Super Butter BEL...ALL butters. Super Mojo BEL....ALL mojos.

Well...if you breed a Lesser Mojo BEL X Normal,

Isn't it true the offspring could take, the mojo gene, the lesser gene, or the combination of the two, and can still produce normals? Since the genes are in the same complex, yet are different mutations, you should be able to reproduce a BEL in a mixed BEL to normal pairing.

Because technically it is a combo animal, albeit from the same complex, but it isn't a "homozygous" form of a BEL.

I look at that pairing, like it SHOULD be the same as a Bee X Normal... (a combo of two different mutations)

You can get animals that take BOTH the spider gene and pastel gene...to make a bee, you can get spiders, and you can get pastels, and you can get normals.

I guess I don't understand why it wouldn't be possible, I know I've talked with others who agree that I should be correct...

It's not like we're talking same lines of pastels here, they ARE different mutations (unless we're talking butters and lessers...being the same...JMO), so really that combo BEL should be capable of producing more BELs when bred to a normal...

That's how I look at it. Anyone do the breedings?

[LadyOhh]

I don't think that's true, anyone here have actual experience breeding a BEL X Normal to give us answers?

I'll put it this way...

If you breed a Super Lesser to a normal... you get ALL lessers. Super Butter BEL...ALL butters. Super Mojo BEL....ALL mojos.

Well...if you breed a Lesser Mojo BEL X Normal,

Isn't it true the offspring could take, the mojo gene, the lesser gene, or the combination of the two, and can still produce normals? Since the genes are in the same complex, yet are different mutations, you should be able to reproduce a BEL in a mixed BEL to normal pairing.

Because technically it is a combo animal, albeit from the same complex, but it isn't a "homozygous" form of a BEL.

I look at that pairing, like it SHOULD be the same as a Bee X Normal... (a combo of two different mutations)

You can get animals that take BOTH the spider gene and pastel gene...to make a bee, you can get spiders, and you can get pastels, and you can get normals.

I guess I don't understand why it wouldn't be possible, I know I've talked with others who agree that I should be correct...

It's not like we're talking same lines of pastels here, they ARE different mutations (unless we're talking butters and lessers...being the same...JMO), so really that combo BEL should be capable of producing more BELs when bred to a normal...

That's how I look at it. Anyone do the breedings?

You make a good point, and I agree with your reasoning, but I have no personal experience to back up your proof.

What you have said was kinda my initial thought process, but... I'm not completely sure anymore. I have never done it.

[Beardedragon]

My bel was bred to a few normals(ten I think) and he is a Lesserxhet russo, the breeder said that ( when I asked if the clutches ever favor one morph...) in one he got 7 lessers and 2 het russos, and in another 2 lessers and 5 het russos( or close to that number) So no bels when bred to a normal.

[Gooseman]

I wonder, if you could produce a "super" BEL? Is it possible to get a snake homozygous for BOTH Butter AND Mojave? Assuming that's even possible, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to prove out. If it continuosly produces only BELs then your golden. Problem is, choosing which solid white snake from the bunch to hold back and try to prove out. Same as the almighty "homo spider".

[ScottyDsntKnow]

I'm pretty sure the white gene in butters/mojos/lessers/russos is the same allele so no you couldn't super it any more than it already is.

[sg1trogdor]

I wonder, if you could produce a "super" BEL? Is it possible to get a snake homozygous for BOTH Butter AND Mojave? Assuming that's even possible, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to prove out. If it continuosly produces only BELs then your golden. Problem is, choosing which solid white snake from the bunch to hold back and try to prove out. Same as the almighty "homo spider".

I guess if you had a pair of double het snakes such as a lesser x mojo bel X lesser X mojo etc. (i think ) Or maybe you would get
lesser bels
lessers
mojo bels
mojos

[dr del]

Hi,

Someone on another forum I visit was selling his Lesser/mojo BEL's with the statement that you could get a BEL in the first generation - I don't buy it.

I just think they are both mutations of the same gene and, since only one copy of the gene comes from each parent, then you could get lesser or mojo but never both.

I may of course be lowering my trousers to speak.

If they are in different locations (like the bumblebee's combo) then it might be possible - but if thats true then the BEL made that way couldn't really be classified as a "super" and I would have thought that kind of info would have been passed on?

Someone send me 6 and I'll try and find out.


dr del

[Beardedragon]

My bel was bred to a few normals(ten I think) and he is a Lesserxhet russo, the breeder said that ( when I asked if the clutches ever favor one morph...) in one he got 7 lessers and 2 het russos, and in another 2 lessers and 5 het russos( or close to that number) So no bels when bred to a normal.

Again, look at this. He bred my lesserxhetrusso bel to many normals, and not a single Bel in the mix. Im sure it gos the same for lesserxbutters/mojaves

[RandyRemington]

I believe several years ago the former Morph King Reptiles bred lesser + mojave males to a large number of normal females (15?) and also produced about 50/50 of mojave and lesser with no normals or leucistics.

This is what concreted the allele idea that had been floating around for a few years before that. As stated in a post above, it looks like within this complex these are all DIFFERENT mutations of the SAME gene. Rather than there only being two versions of this gene like say spider and normal for spider in the case of that gene it looks like the blue eyed leucistic complex has many non normal versions of a single gene. So the lesser + mojave leucistic has it's two copies of the bel gene taken by those two different mutant versions and has no room for a normal version of that gene. When a breeding occurs each parent can only pass one copy of each gene so with lesser and mojave being two different versions of the same gene the combo leucistic can only pass one or the other on but not both.

The difference with say a bumblebee is that spider and pastel are different mutations of DIFFERENT genes so can be passed on in any combination but the rules change with alleles and there are enough examples now with the blue eyed complex, the super stripe complex, and perhaps even a black eyed leucistic complex that we need to understand how they work.

[nevohraalnavnoj]

I'm pretty sure the white gene in butters/mojos/lessers/russos is the same allele so no you couldn't super it any more than it already is.

Ditto.

Let X be the gene for butter. Let Y be the gene for lesser. (For example.) Let - denote random A, C, T, and G's in the DNA sequence. Then it could look something like this.

----------Y-------------- (and so on)
----------X-------------- (and so on)

So when half that DNA strand gets passed on (sperm/eggs carry one strand of DNA), either the X or the Y will get passed on...meaning ALL butters or lessers, but no BEL's.

JonV