info on corns?

[wilomn]

As for my own earlier statement that you quoted and commented on, the problem was in the fact that the corns were of DIFFERENT sizes. That can certainly lead to dominance issues and fighting.

I don't really appreciate the tone you were implying. Please, do not treat me like you treat the 'unknowing teenagers' of this site. I am 31 and have been keeping various species of animals, reptiles certainly included, since I was 5. I know you're older and more experienced, but that doesn't mean you can put that sort of tone to everyone. Thank you.

Above you mention dominance issues and fighting.

I've only been keeping corns for about 30 years so I've never seen either of these things. How is it that you know so much of them, that they occur with such frequency for you, that you feel the need to "inform" a newbie on the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that these two things will come into play should they dare to keep two snakes of the same species but different sizes. A species known for it's mellowness and ability to get along with it's neighbors, so far as my research has been able to prove.

Do you have first hand experience with this dominance and fighting?

Truly, I'm not looking to treat you like a teenager, no matter what you may act like, but as an uninformed but well intenetioned "seasoned'' but wrong, keeper of snakes.

Can you site any sources? Post any pics? Have a story of peronal travail with keeping corns of different sizes in the same cage?

Or are you just parroting, without having one shred of personal experience, what you have heard others say?

[Argentra]

Number 1 - Perhaps 'certainly' was a bad word choice, but I meant it in a light, 'the chances are quite high' way rather than a FOR SURE way.

Number 2 - With 30 years, you would know the ins and outs and what to look for that enable you to house multiple snakes together. A newbie would not know these things. It is SAFEST for any new snake owner to keep their snakes separate, since things COULD happen that they would want to avoid...such as dominance behavior and fighting.

Number 3 - Just because it works for you does NOT make it universal for everyone else. Nor does it make other practices 'wrong'. Just because you have not had issues with fights or dominating behaviors in your corns does not mean that it hasn't happened before for others. Have you ever heard "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"??

Number 4 - I do not have PERSONAL stories, but I do have second person knowledge seen first hand. A friend of mine had a 55 gallon tank with 3 corn snakes of different sizes/ages. No matter what I said, she ignored my ADVICE that she separate them. Then she started having regurge problems and, since she couldn't figure out which one was doing it, she just kept feeding them the same way and it continued. Eventually, of course, she learned that it was the smallest corn since it started looking VERY thin and sickly. By then it was too late and that snake died not long after being discovered..even after she put it into its own enclosure.
I had to watch this going on, and she never once listened to my suggestions on husbandry. Even after she lost that one, she just said the little one must not have been 'strong enough' and continues keeping the other two (who are also of different sizes) together in that tank.

[wilomn]

Number 1 - Perhaps 'certainly' was a bad word choice, but I meant it in a light, 'the chances are quite high' way rather than a FOR SURE way.

Number 2 - With 30 years, you would know the ins and outs and what to look for that enable you to house multiple snakes together. A newbie would not know these things. It is SAFEST for any new snake owner to keep their snakes separate, since things COULD happen that they would want to avoid...such as dominance behavior and fighting.

Number 3 - Just because it works for you does NOT make it universal for everyone else. Nor does it make other practices 'wrong'. Just because you have not had issues with fights or dominating behaviors in your corns does not mean that it hasn't happened before for others. Have you ever heard "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"??

Number 4 - I do not have PERSONAL stories, but I do have second person knowledge seen first hand. A friend of mine had a 55 gallon tank with 3 corn snakes of different sizes/ages. No matter what I said, she ignored my ADVICE that she separate them. Then she started having regurge problems and, since she couldn't figure out which one was doing it, she just kept feeding them the same way and it continued. Eventually, of course, she learned that it was the smallest corn since it started looking VERY thin and sickly. By then it was too late and that snake died not long after being discovered..even after she put it into its own enclosure.
I had to watch this going on, and she never once listened to my suggestions on husbandry. Even after she lost that one, she just said the little one must not have been 'strong enough' and continues keeping the other two (who are also of different sizes) together in that tank.

And from this second hand personal information, HA, you derive the fact that there were not only dominance issues in the tank but fighting as well?

Perhaps you did not word things well.

I'm not trying to beat you up and I NEVER said keeping them separate or alone was wrong, just that it was NOT the bozo no-no you make it out to be.

I'm also curious. How does one learn if not by doing? Reading is good. Watching others is fine. Talking is ok too.

NONE of them come anywhere near to hands on.

How do you get hands on without doing it yourself?

[Argentra]

That story was to point out the 'dangers' of housing multiple snakes together. Nowhere did I say that it was to support my words on dominance and fights.
The whole dominance/fighting thing was just the particular possible thing that could happen that I came up with. There are plenty of other things that could come up.

Learning by doing is great...but there's only so much you can do by yourself. The Theory of Gravity was discovered by one man...but proven by many. It takes different people trying something many times to show it as useful or not. When many many people observe that housing snakes separately seems safer and healthier for the owner and snakes, then it is the BETTER choice...but not the only one.

To the OP: Sorry for hijacking your thread. I still say the group sounds awesome, and you should get them if you can.

[RoyalGuardian]

And from this second hand personal information, HA, you derive the fact that there were not only dominance issues in the tank but fighting as well?

Perhaps you did not word things well.

I'm not trying to beat you up and I NEVER said keeping them separate or alone was wrong, just that it was NOT the bozo no-no you make it out to be.

I'm also curious. How does one learn if not by doing? Reading is good. Watching others is fine. Talking is ok too.

NONE of them come anywhere near to hands on.

How do you get hands on without doing it yourself?

You are comming off as really rude with all of the comments on this thread. Stop being so defensive. I don't even have a corn and I don't think that I would EVER keep two snakes together for an extended period of time. You said that you have never had any dominance issues? Have you ever caught one of your snakes coiled on another? That is one dominating the other. You may have kept snakes for longer than I have but the fact is more than one snake in a cage especially ones of different ages does not sound at all like a good idea.

I would say if you are going to get these corns to first get seperate tubs. It will reduce stress on the animals. snakes don't make snakie friends. They will all fight for dominace and that would be alot of stress on your smaller snakes.. Thank you.

[wilomn]

That story was to point out the 'dangers' of housing multiple snakes together. Nowhere did I say that it was to support my words on dominance and fights.
The whole dominance/fighting thing was just the particular possible thing that could happen that I came up with. There are plenty of other things that could come up.

If a thing has never happened, and I have NEVER, not once, heard of one corn being dominant over any other nor have I EVER heard of them fighting, what is the likely hood that it will occur?

It's possible that a meteor will knock you silly next time you step out of your house. Do you wear a hard hat every day?

It's all well and good to be cautious but you were passing judgement, saying absodamnlutely that a thing was not good and THEN you had the gall to throw in reasons that HAVE NO FACTUAL BASIS.

This is what I am driving at. YOU, as an experienced keeper are passing on to a newbie information that YOU, the experienced keeper have NO clue whether is true or not. You have assumed that it is because it suits YOUR point of view, when the plain and simple facts are you are incorrect.

Keep them apart or in groups of a thousand, makes no nevermind to me. Just don't pass down nonsense as law to those who don't know better.

[mykaija]

i would get them their own set ups

it was stated in the first post, im not expierenced enough to even want to keep multi animals in the same set up. thank you all for the good info, but as the guy never got back to me, i fear it's all for naught. again thank you for the info though....

[RoyalGuardian]

it was stated in the first post, im not expierenced enough to even want to keep multi animals in the same set up. thank you all for the good info, but as the guy never got back to me, i fear it's all for naught. again thank you for the info though....

Aww... thats too bad... I hope you find some nice other corns then! Good luck on your hunt!

[Argentra]

....I am not even going to grace that with a complete answer. Except to say: How can one person, even in their entire life, see ALL the things that can happen with animals?? If you are basing the decision that people only know something if they have seen it themselves...then no one out there will ever know anything in your eyes.

mykaija: Sad to hear he never got back with you. But don't give up on keeping corns, they are wonderful snakes to own!

[RoyalGuardian]

....I am not even going to grace that with a complete answer. Except to say: How can one person, even in their entire life, see ALL the things that can happen with animals?? If you are basing the decision that people only know something if they have seen it themselves...then no one out there will ever know anything in your eyes.

mykaija: Sad to hear he never got back with you. But don't give up on keeping corns, they are wonderful snakes to own!

Argentra...Wilomn is an 88 year old. That explains her stuborness! Old people are always like that. They have their minds made up their own way and nothing you say or do will change their mind... *sigh* grandma... your obnoxious ideas on how the world works will forever allude me may you rest in peace... * fond memories of gramma rantin about "the good ol days" *