Oh my god, please not IBD.

[FloridaHogs]

Looks like the animal was in the beginning of death throas when you first found it, and that is what you were seeing. Assist feeding is very stressfuul and can injure the animal.

[mooingtricycle]

Dont mix ANYTHING. All of those animals in that room need to be taken care of individually, and SERIOUSLY lock everything down. Dont touch an edge of the rack without washing your hands first and after.

Seriously. Consider this as a worst case scenario. Dont touch your pants, dont touch anything, use gloves. Throw gloves away after EACH animal. Use gloves for EVERYTHING in that room. Even touching the Door handle if you have one on it. consider everything dirty and carrying the virus.

Avoid touching anything sick as much as you possibly can.

[wilomn]

There is also an excellent possibility that you simply got imported snakes that had parasites or bacteria that took 120 days to kill the first snake.

That is not an uncommon scenario. Babies go through all kinds of crap.

If I think the people you got them from are who I recall them as being, then substandard snakes would be no surprise at all.

Did you get fecals done or use any meds at all on the babies when you got them?

[starmom]

Yes of course. Little update: Thinks are not looking good. I was checking on the other CH females, and I caught one stargazing. I touched her head and she recoiled and a bunch of mucous flew out of her mouth. It appears she has an RI. She is now isolated away from my already isolated CH females.

Oh boy, this does not sound very positive at all. Clean, clean clean and see if your vet will work a deal to look at all of your snakes...
Remember to employ very strict qt procedures when dealing with your snakes in order to avoid cross-contamination.
Take care and remember to breathe...

[frankykeno]

Just got off the phone with the vet, they can't do it but they can sent it to Guelph for me and its $250. I've got $5 in the bank right now. Gotta borrow from mom and dad I guess...no bumblebee for me...

Peter, Guelph is a top notch place (are you sending the snake direct to the vet school there?). It's well worth the money to find out what killed this CH hatchling.

Until then I would completely seperate and strictly QT the CH group and any other snake showing any signs of illness. I would get busy with cleaning, disinfecting, buy disposable gloves, do not share prey or husbandry tools, etc. I would close the collection until you know better and put on temporary hold any incoming snakes (and of course, nothing going out). I would not go near other reptiles (shows, pet stores, etc.) nor allow anyone near yours until you know for sure what went on.

Peter to be quite honest what struck me in that hatchling that passed was the appearance that it had a severely concave belly. How big were these hatchlings when you got them in? If you only assist fed that one 4 times, and have had them for months - was it not eating before or had it started to eat after the 4 assists or had it only had those 4 meals into it? Did you get any information from this supplier as to whether these CH's were flipped and had never had a feeding yet or were properly hydrated and cared for before they were sold to you? Of the rest of that group, are they gaining weight appropriately or do others have this same look to them?

After you got in this CH group what other snakes have you brought into the collection?

I'm no expert on IBD but it does strike me as odd that a delicate and small hatchling would take this long to die of IBD. I, like others here, was under the impression that IBD was a far swifter killer of pythons. My gut instinct is that this little snake died of something else and I'll be very interested to read the findings coming back from Guelph.

[filly77]

Oh wow, Im so sorry to hear everything you're going thru, it's every herpers nightmare. my prayers are with you and your collection!

[blackcrystal22]

If you need help with money, I can see if I can donate a couple dollars to your cause. It may not be much but 10 dollars could go a long way sometimes. :]

I'm terribly sorry that this his happening to you. I believe too that I find it odd for the snake to have taken that long to die of IBD. If the other snake has an RI, then I suspect there was probably a nasty bug or parasite in the group you bought.

Good luck and let us know the results! This information could help us learn a whole lot of what to expect and watch out for. Your doing a fantastic job and taking this very well.

[Bruce Whitehead]

Hey peter... very late on this thread and I cannot offer enough condolences.

I have to say I concur with the thoughts surrounding IBD as being faster than that. Often larger breeders will place a hatchling male BP in with a boa before bringing it out of QT... as the python will die before the QT is up.

Sorry for the graphic and not so popular image, but many of us know that is done.

My fear though, and my caution... and I really hate even suggesting it. But the show Aug 10th in Mtl. Is there a chance you brought something home with you accidentally?

Or something intentional? Supplies, feeders, etc. that may have come into contact with this baby snake and may not have been 100% sanitized? If her immune system was already compromised it may have sped things up for her.

I am not sure if you remember a thread on R-Canada regarding an individual's snake that was accidentally poisoned by the active ingredient in Nix and displayed very similar symptons to IBD? If I remember this happened before they got the snake and the effective was cumulative and did not show up immediately.

You mentioned no mites, no treatments, so just asking... did you treat an enclosure or anything that may have possibly come into contact with her.

Just grasping here.

The other concern would be if the second snake is showing symptons of an advanced RI, then very carefully trace your QT and handling procedures within your snake room.

What tools are used on what snakes, any shared tubs, shared cleaning areas, etc.

My heart goes out to you Peter.

Bruce

[Peter Williams]

Peter, Guelph is a top notch place (are you sending the snake direct to the vet school there?). It's well worth the money to find out what killed this CH hatchling.

Until then I would completely seperate and strictly QT the CH group and any other snake showing any signs of illness. I would get busy with cleaning, disinfecting, buy disposable gloves, do not share prey or husbandry tools, etc. I would close the collection until you know better and put on temporary hold any incoming snakes (and of course, nothing going out). I would not go near other reptiles (shows, pet stores, etc.) nor allow anyone near yours until you know for sure what went on.

Peter to be quite honest what struck me in that hatchling that passed was the appearance that it had a severely concave belly. How big were these hatchlings when you got them in? If you only assist fed that one 4 times, and have had them for months - was it not eating before or had it started to eat after the 4 assists or had it only had those 4 meals into it? Did you get any information from this supplier as to whether these CH's were flipped and had never had a feeding yet or were properly hydrated and cared for before they were sold to you? Of the rest of that group, are they gaining weight appropriately or do others have this same look to them?

After you got in this CH group what other snakes have you brought into the collection?

I'm no expert on IBD but it does strike me as odd that a delicate and small hatchling would take this long to die of IBD. I, like others here, was under the impression that IBD was a far swifter killer of pythons. My gut instinct is that this little snake died of something else and I'll be very interested to read the findings coming back from Guelph.

The vet I'm taking the body to tomorrow is taking care of all the sending, I'll ask them tomorrow but I'm not sure exactly where in Guelph it's being sent. When I bought them, he said some had been started on mice, and some needed a little more persuasion. At present I have 9 that are eating rats and doing fine. The other 11 consisted of 6 mouse feeders (also doing fine, just don't weigh as much as the rat feeders naturally) and 5 non feeders. I waited as long as I could and tried all the tricks to get them to eat but those 5 just wouldn't eat. I began assist feeding all of them, and then this. The female that died was one of the non feeders. I have not brought any more snakes into the collection since I got these CH's. I'm just hoping and praying this is not IBD. I am scheduled to get a bumblebee from Mark Mandic on Sept 9th. If all this is not resolved by then I will see him again on sept 20th, at the expo, were I can get it from him then. Do you think the vet results will be back by Sept 20th?

[Somed00d]

lets pray that it is only from the assist feeding and malnutrition rather than ibd.. I have delt with rodentkings before for feeders with no problems on multiple occasions, my freezer is still stocked up. I saw they were selling CH babies and I was almost tempted to buy some but I decided I would rather not.. I am kinda glad at this point. as for guelph, they send it to the university, you can actually take it yourself and it will probably be cheaper.. I seem to remember a post by corey woods about where its located.. that was on reptilescanada if your going to search it..

Good luck and I hope your collection is not at risk of IBD.
Richard