I can't believe what I overheard at a show... Talk about power feeding..

[frankykeno]

Might be an idea to read them.

Okay let's look at this part....

They found that oxygen consumption rose sevenfold in lab pythons after feeding. This was accompanied by an extraordinarily rapid growth in heart size. The snakes' heart ventricle muscle mass (ventricles are the heart's pumping chambers) increased 40 percent in just two days.

The study team was able to link this sudden growth to increased production of a cardiac protein. The protein is associated with cells that enlarge the heart and boost its pumping capacity, a condition known as cardiac hypertrophy.

The researchers say feeding-induced cardiac hypertrophy likely explains why Burmese pythons pump 50 percent more blood per heartbeat while quietly digesting a meal than when slithering at full speed.

So, basically the process is significantly more physically draining than the snake slithering at full speed. Common sense tells me that I don't want to put my snakes at full gear, burning up that sort of energy every few days. If the goal is to raise healthy snakes that gain weight in a normal manner, how do you accomplish this when encouraging them to pump that much blood, requiring that much more energy draw? How is this sensible?

Previous studies point to why python hearts need to go into overdrive when these animals digest food. Researchers report livers growing to three times their normal size, intestines doubling in mass, and pancreatic enzyme activity increasing threefold. Such changes within the snake significantly raise the demand for oxygenated blood.

So not only the heart (and it's push to pump more blood) go into overdrive but so do many other very vital organs. Now this is what nature intended and designed for snakes. What nature never took into consideration was humans tossing dinner at a snake every 3 days. They are predators and like any wild predator they likely miss more than they catch. Nature never likely intended any snake to eat that often and therefore I do believe that a constant swing into and out of this intensive digestive process and all it entails will eventually take a toll on a snake over it's lifetime. For me, having read all these studies, that just makes sense.

[Sloburn]

I still do not see anywhere in the points you brought up where it said it is a bad thing. Maybe it is a bad thing and I do not plan on feeding my snake every other day. But I have not seen anything where it says these things have show to decase the snakes life span or where it causes health issues. Not to sound sarcastic or trying to start anything but I would love to see the info in black and white about the negative effects on the ball python. Hopefuly it would help some of the people out there decide the right thing to do.

[frankykeno]

Again, if you read the studies you won't be finding that answer but that was not the focus of those studies so that's to be expected. The focus of them was to understand the processes at work, not follow those snakes through an entire lifetime. When and if that particular study is done (and if it has been done I'd love to read it), then you may get your definitive answer.

For me, when I read studies like this, I look for things that make sense to me. I use those grey cells to take what the scientists are telling me and translate that into a sensible captive feeding program. I was taught that weekly feeds work well for ball pythons because it gives them the downtime they require between the stresses of a feeding cycle. These studies seem to indicate that this wisdom shared by very experienced keepers with quite huge collections makes good sense considering the definitive findings on the major changes snakes go through during digestion.

I think every keeper has to make these decisions for themselves and their snakes. I like to take what people tell me, do my own research, try to make sense of what the reason behind the wisdom is and just go from there. That works for me. Seems to be working well so far for our snakes too.

[Sloburn]

Very well put Franky. I personaly will take the knowledge I have and with that and my snakes figure out what is the best for them. I dont think I would feed my snakes any more then 5 to 7 days apart. Depends on the snake. It all boils down to personal opinions since there doesnt seem to be anything to define it in black and white. Seriously who would like to get that het lav female and male to breeding size in one year.

[Mr. Constrictor]

I was at a show a while back and was talking with a breeder who told me to get my female hatchlings on rat pups asap and feed them 3 times a week so i could breed them at 18 months. Needless to say i have never bought anything from him.

[Gloryhound]

Well I'll be! I guess I should stop lifting weights 5 times a week as my heart rate increases everytime I lift and those protien shakes are definately out the window.

Thanks for that one now I have an excuse to go out and drink in the evening instead of wasting my time in the weight room!

[Sloburn]

Well I'll be! I guess I should stop lifting weights 5 times a week as my heart rate increases everytime I lift and those protien shakes are definately out the window.

Thanks for that one now I have an excuse to go out and drink in the evening instead of wasting my time in the weight room!

\

Dont forget breeding. That will really get the heart going might enlarge it and you could die. Man what a way to go.

[Bruce Whitehead]

... It seems to me, the hatchling that you most want to eat and get to breeding size is the one least likely to cooperate... and just because they reach breeding size does not mean that they will actually breed and produce viable sperm/eggs. Murphy's ball python laws.

I think when you look at studies and then temper it with your own experience with snakes and the qualitative experiences and anecdotes of those breeders who have put themselves out there in regards to sharing their knowledge... then yeah, I think you said it wonderfully.

For me, when I read studies like this, I look for things that make sense to me. I use those grey cells to take what the scientists are telling me and translate that into a sensible captive feeding program.

I need to spread more reputation around before giving it back to FrankyKeno... (or I would have).

Bruce

[bigballs]

I have read about snakes in the wild they are oportunist feeders. If the food is available then they eat if they are hungry. The analogy of a kid eating mc donalds every day is not remotely the same. How many artificial chemicals and what not is put into a mc donalds hamburger? Mice or Rats are a fairly organic food source.

you do not see how a parent over feeding a child may be similar to a snake keeper power feeding the animal that they care for?

i made no reference at all to the amount of chemicals put into mcdonalds or how organic rats are.

i was only trying to compare the responsibility of a parent caring for a child to the responsibility of a snake keeper caring for their snakes. something that you take care of can only be as healthy as you allow it to be. that was the point and thats pretty remote...

[blackcrystal22]

you do not see how a parent over feeding a child may be similar to a snake keeper power feeding the animal that they care for?

i made no reference at all to the amount of chemicals put into mcdonalds or how organic rats are.

i was only trying to compare the responsibility of a parent caring for a child to the responsibility of a snake keeper caring for their snakes. something that you take care of can only be as healthy as you allow it to be. that was the point and thats pretty remote...

I think what he was saying was that the system is different and overfeeding a child doesn't drain it of a weeks worth of energy like it does for a snake.
I don't think he was denying the responsibility meaning to that, which is completely true. :]