Productive Breeding Life

[frankykeno]

Shadi, I see you are in MI. Mind if I ask where you got your ASF's from since if you're located in southern Michigan I'm not that far away. I'm looking for some new bloodlines to freshen up my ASF's and also albino ones (just for fun really and becuase I like that look).

[771subliminal]

Shadi, I see you are in MI. Mind if I ask where you got your ASF's from since if you're located in southern Michigan I'm not that far away. I'm looking for some new bloodlines to freshen up my ASF's and also albino ones (just for fun really and becuase I like that look).

there are at least 2 breeders that have them for sale at the reptile show in taylor. hooks breeder farms will bring what ever size your looking for to the show if you call them ahead of time, other wise they only have one size there

[TekWarren]

I've written about this on the other forum, but I've found that there is a period of time where breeding groups "lose their productiveness". I think for me its a year or a little more. On the flip side to those thinking about continuous breeding and stress...I have observed issues with cycling males or just removing them and re-introducing them. These rodents seem to form tight-nit social groups mixing those groups up or even putting back in a male who bred females previously will cause the ladder to be rebuilt from the ground up. I guess you can decide which stress is the lesser of the two "evils". When I started breeding I ran into a worst case scenario trying to do cycling and ended up with a female being injured pretty bad (she made it ok). This female was with the same females all along but the reintroduction of the same male that bred them before turned the ladder upside down....again just my experience.

[frankykeno]

there are at least 2 breeders that have them for sale at the reptile show in taylor. hooks breeder farms will bring what ever size your looking for to the show if you call them ahead of time, other wise they only have one size there

I'll have to make time to get over to Taylor then since I cannot find anyone any closer and I'd like to freshen up my gene pool a bit (and get some of those nice albino ones darn it!)

I've written about this on the other forum, but I've found that there is a period of time where breeding groups "lose their productiveness". I think for me its a year or a little more. On the flip side to those thinking about continuous breeding and stress...I have observed issues with cycling males or just removing them and re-introducing them. These rodents seem to form tight-nit social groups mixing those groups up or even putting back in a male who bred females previously will cause the ladder to be rebuilt from the ground up. I guess you can decide which stress is the lesser of the two "evils". When I started breeding I ran into a worst case scenario trying to do cycling and ended up with a female being injured pretty bad (she made it ok). This female was with the same females all along but the reintroduction of the same male that bred them before turned the ladder upside down....again just my experience.

I completely agree with you. I've seen what an established colony will do if a member is out of it for any time at all and even tried to put a half grown female back in with her "parents". No go. They nearly killed her in seconds. My gut instinct here is this is a social structure built around the females, particularily a dominant female and any change in that structure is as you said tearing it down from the ground up causing major fights.

I find it interesting that watching our female ASF's they seem to thrive on highly productive breeding. Instead of becoming thin or worn down by back to back litters, they seem to grow bigger and bigger with each litter. I suspect that their way of communally nursing and raising their litters alleviates any individual female from becoming run down by the demands of that litter. I have noticed a pecking order in the colonies with certain females showing dominance to the others, eating first or most, etc. leading me to believe there is a pecking order at work.

[shadi11]

Shadi, I see you are in MI. Mind if I ask where you got your ASF's from since if you're located in southern Michigan I'm not that far away. I'm looking for some new bloodlines to freshen up my ASF's and also albino ones (just for fun really and becuase I like that look).

Sorry I just noticed them. I got mine from three different breeders.. One lives over by me. She doesnt breed them for sale but mostly her snakes. I also picked some up from hooks at the Taylor show. Her female produced me awesome numbers and got quite large. I just picked up some more to add in from a third breeder last week. They both just had babies and one litter was 10 and one was 16. Albinos I have seen a couple times at the show but its not a regular occurance. Right now I have blk/grey/white and brindle/white.

I have also noted they are good for about a year then my numbers start dropping. My original breeder from Hooks just passed, she was just over a year, and her numbers really didnt go down much. her last few litters were 8-10 and her number when she started was 15.. They do seem very close as well. They do better if left together all the time and no one being moved around. The males seem to actually help with the babies. they will protect them and also sit with them while the mom eats.

[frankykeno]

The males, and the older offspring of the colony, often are given babysitting duties it seems. I always find it funny when "dad" is on a pile of little wigglers and they are all trying to nurse off him. Poor rat! LOL They do seem to have a really good natural system worked out though. The really young ones are rarely left without some rat in the colony keeping an eye on them.

[JoMo]

We really need to draft a good caresheet for these critters. The information online is so all over the place about them. One site I read actually said they make great pets with a good temperment.

Joanna,

You may find this useful: http://www.jirds.cwc.net/rag/profiles/nmmr.htm

[TekWarren]

JoMo,

That is the site most people go off from and the one that has been mentioned NOT citing any references. This was one of the first sites I found when searching for info years ago.

Your efforts are appreciated though!

There is much info on the asf forum, maybe not enough yet to write a full paper on them but something to think about I suppose.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Joanna,

You may find this useful: http://www.jirds.cwc.net/rag/profiles/nmmr.htm

or even better.. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=70828

[littleindiangirl]

I just read the care sheet we have here, I still have to contest the ASF = low odor rules...

I smell them after a week, and their odor smells worse than domestic rats IMO after that week has passed. (it wasn't bad when I only had 3 weaners! )

It's not a strong over powering odor that can be smelled throughout the rat room, but standing over their tank/tub and it smells nauseating.

Not over crowding, use pine pellets, feed Mazuri, have lots of fresh water... so who else can smell them besides me? I think I'm the only one...