How can you tell your BP likes you?

[Sonya610]

Wow some very good posts! Argenta you are right, the thread started about bonding but went into emotion and perception and I think everyone here would agree that BP’s are very sensitive little guys. The numerous threads devoted to reducing their anxiety levels, helping them feel safe and relaxed in their environments so they will eat etc…show they are in some ways very susceptible to anxiety indeed.

Connie when you keep comparing humans to animals, I think you’ re projecting a bit. Intellect aside, humans vary a LOT in their ability to feel emotion, bond, empathize etc… We may live in groups and have some ingrained behavioral traits for survival purposes, but that is not the same as complex, deep emotion or true bonding. I am not just referring to individual sociopaths either, there are large cultures where bonding is at a minimum, empathy is rare and watching ones own small children starve to death while the parents eat their fill first is common practice.

I know this thread is not about the lack of human emotions, but when humans keep being compared to other animals it does factor in.

[littleindiangirl]

Connie when you keep comparing humans to animals, I think you’ re projecting a bit. Intellect aside, humans vary a LOT in their ability to feel emotion, bond, empathize etc… We may live in groups and have some ingrained behavioral traits for survival purposes, but that is not the same as complex, deep emotion or true bonding. I am not just referring to individual sociopaths either, there are large cultures where bonding is at a minimum, empathy is rare and watching ones own small children starve to death while the parents eat their fill first is common practice.

How am I the one projecting here? I think my entire message is to NOT project or humanize animals. This entire thread has been can snakes like you? In human terms, it denotes a certain bonding and attachment that we often construe to be emotional bond. I simply don't believe snakes have emotional bonds with others of their species or us humans.

Can mammals have emotional bonds? A lot of mammals are social, so they do need to be bonded and tight knit. But neither am I humanizing dogs and cats or birds.

Do opossums have the same social structure like dogs? No, they are mostly solitary and have no use for bonding to a group. This social need greatly affects how animals do bond and interact with us.

Some mammals do have emotions, dogs can be depressed, or excited. But do they sympathize with humans? It's to that far extent that I think we take humanizing too far.

I think they rely heavily on the moods of the pack, but I won't go so far as to say that the dogs are thinking about how you feel emotionally and if they've hurt your feelings.

And really, what large cultures watch their young starve? What culture watches their young starve in and not care? How do you really know that these parents of starving children aren't torn up and trying their best?

If your going back the Africa example, I have to believe you really don't know what your talking about. Sorry, from the posts I've read from you, I simply can't believe you have any real clue.

[jglass38]

How am I the one projecting here? I think my entire message is to NOT project or humanize animals. This entire thread has been can snakes like you? In human terms, it denotes a certain bonding and attachment that we often construe to be emotional bond. I simply don't believe snakes have emotional bonds with others of their species or us humans.

Can mammals have emotional bonds? A lot of mammals are social, so they do need to be bonded and tight knit. But neither am I humanizing dogs and cats or birds.

Do opossums have the same social structure like dogs? No, they are mostly solitary and have no use for bonding to a group. This social need greatly affects how animals do bond and interact with us.

Some mammals do have emotions, dogs can be depressed, or excited. But do they sympathize with humans? It's to that far extent that I think we take humanizing too far.

I think they rely heavily on the moods of the pack, but I won't go so far as to say that the dogs are thinking about how you feel emotionally and if they've hurt your feelings.

And really, what large cultures watch their young starve? What culture watches their young starve in and not care? How do you really know that these parents of starving children aren't torn up and trying their best?

If your going back the Africa example, I have to believe you really don't know what your talking about. Sorry, from the posts I've read from you, I simply can't believe you have any real clue.

Great post! Most notably the last sentence!

[Sonya610]

And really, what large cultures watch their young starve? What culture watches their young starve in and not care? How do you really know that these parents of starving children aren't torn up and trying their best?

Wow...errrmmm...okay then. I would suspect they are not all that torn up about it because if they were they would share their food and starve with them. If you have an interest in the common practices of other humans, then try Google, or don't as it might reveal facts that you would prefer to ignore.

I realize I should not have commented on your opinions and apologize to the other posters if this brings down the level of discussion in this thread.

Peace.

[Spaniard]

Sonya,

Why not post the links to these articles? Obviously starvation in Africa is a problem but no where can I find anything about parents eating while there children starve. Can you point me in the right direction?

[Sonya610]

Sonya,
Why not post the links to these articles? Obviously starvation in Africa is a problem but no where can I find anything about parents eating while there children starve. Can you point me in the right direction?

Sure, here are some links, most of the info comes from aid organizations:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/w9990e/w9990e10.htm: In many societies, tradition dictates that the men eat first and receive the best food. When food is scarce, this often means that women and children go without. Thus, women in the developing world are more likely to be undernourished than men. Closely spaced pregnancies also take their toll, leading in many cases to anaemia, a major cause of maternal mortality.

http://www.etext.org/Politics/Somali...me.1/snu-1.30: Riding on the back of a pickup truck into Liboi camp just east of Dagahaley, regional camp coordinator Gail Neudorf of Vancouver, B.C., pointed to a group of men standing and talking.
"Look at those men. Do you see anybody malnourished? No," she said. "That's because the men eat first, the women eat next, then the children eat -- if there's anything left after the animals eat. That's what really hurts: The animals eat before the children.
"It makes sense for survival in the nomadic culture. But not now."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1831953

In fact foreign aid organizations sometimes judge the level of famine in various areas based on the condition of the mature males, because when they start to starve it shows the famine is becoming quite severe. That might make sense if the males were the primary breadwinners, but often the women do most of the manual labor yet they still are secondary when it comes to food.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080609/...thiopia_hunger SHASHAMANE, Ethiopia - But Usheto is not the typical face of Ethiopia's chronic food problems, the scrawny baby or the ailing toddler. At age 55, he is among a growing number of adults and older children — traditionally less-vulnerable groups — who have been stricken by severe hunger due to poor rains and recent crop failure in southern Ethiopia, health workers say.

There are a lot more articles on the topic. I am sure some will feel the need to point out the obvious, these practices developed as survival strategies, and yup, I would agree.

[Sophiax]

Wow, it's clear that some people have different definitions of words like 'emotion', 'thinking', 'feeling', 'projecting', etc. Lets try not to argue over definitions...

The original question is about how bp's 'like' us - if they do, how do they show it? Of course they don't like us the way our boyfriend/girlfriend/parent/friend likes us, but maybe they can grow to trust and yes, like or love us, as much as a ball python is capable.

Let's not make out like we're the only creatures on this earth able to feel anything.

I'd like to hear more examples (concrete i.e. behaviour, anecdotes) of whether our little critters 'like' us. If you think they do, then tell us what behaviour makes you think so. If you think not, tell us how your ball pythons don't recognise you, show no personality or preference for you... etc.

ps. Sonya610 - those links! It's so sad but true, what happens in some countries...