Quote Originally Posted by frankykeno View Post
As has been mentioned, but it's worth repeating again, ball pythons are not sight hunters. It would be pretty well useless to them to be sight hunters since their natural world deep in an wild rat burrow or in an african termite mound doesn't include much natural lighting in order to see their prey. There are studies out there that show that snakes with labial pits, as bp's have, are at a much greater disadvantage if their pits are inactive, but show almost no change in hunting pattern if their sight is impaired.



This is all pretty fascinating stuff, however, some points you've skipped over. Evolution doesn't work in a few short years. Ball pythons haven't been kept in captive situations in any way, shape or form long enough for us measly humans to affect their evolutionary process. To think we have done that, is to be very overly impressed with ourselves I think.

Also evolution is not the same as physical inactivity of muscle structure as in your patient in bed example. That's a function of illness or inactivity - not evolution.

Dogs again are a poor example since their changes were achieved through selective breeding for specific physical change suited to a job or look humans wanted for them. Ball pythons are not being selectively bred for major physical changes. A high priced morph BP is nothing more than a normal BP with a slightly fancier paint job. Under that skin is p. regius with all the instincts and abilities nature put there.

Now as far as prey, whether or not you care for rats as far as I'm concerned, they deserve the respect of a prey animal that is the sole reason you are not sitting on a computer talking about your dead snake. Provide the most perfect enclosure, provide water, bedding, whatever....without that prey item....you've eventually got one dead snake. The predator/prey dynamic is the single most important aspect and both parties to that dynamic deserve the respect due them (at least in my not always so humble opinion).

You don't have to make a huge deal over the rodents, but treating them inhumanely, disregarding their vital role both in captive and wild environments is to my mind, a very short sighted way to look at things.

As far as the original question, there is an in between place which for Mike and I never includes stunning. If the OP wishes to feed live they can always offer live in the form of a rat fuzzy that has no erupted teeth. With the work beforehand to ask about and study how to live feed successfully, pre-scenting the area, introducting a basically harmles live prey item and good monitoring there's no common sense reason it will not work. As the snake is observed it can be ascertained how efficient it's hunting methods are on live prey and a feeding program tailored to it's needs.

We do this with any snake we have that we do not have information on it's previous life (rescues, adoptions, etc.). It allows us to assess the situation and make informed decisions for the snake. It seems to be working since we've been live feeding quite a while now on quite a number of snakes from three different species and I've yet to see a problem.
Great Points! You are right about the heat pits... At the time I thought that the heat pits were just there to assist the whole process. I was just trying to be carefull, with a sick snake that I had never fed before.

I thought of evolution...But I believe you are right... Maybe evolution has nothing to do with it. The point that I was trying to make is that animals, especially in captivity can lose touch with their instinctual behaviors, if you provide an environment where either they can't or don't have to practice that behavior in order to survive. Like I said... I have seen snakes stop constricting (Not all do), but I have seen it... from eating F/T weekly for years. In that case the F/T was just left laying in the bin, and the snake would just casually unhinge and start to swallow with as much as a strike or a wrap. Rare yes... but it can happen and it's not hard to understand why it would.

I am an animal lover... And I do love ALL animals and the roles they play! I know that without that rats death, my snake would die... And I do respect that. But you can't tell me that years and years of you sending these little rodents to their death had not desensatized you at least a little. They are born prey items. I have total respect fo the rat as a prey item... And personally I actually find it a bit more humane for the rat to stun them prior to feeding. If I was going to be eaten... I probably wouldn't want to be concious for the last minutes. As a matter of fact... if I were being constricted by a giant anaconda I would probably be praying for a bullet to the head. Some might go as far to say that me stunning the rat is showing to much compasion or respect for the rat. Fact is if I stun I don't stun for the sake of the rat... Even though i think it makes it less traumatic for the rat, thats not why I do it. I take pride in the fact that my snakes eat fresh and not frozen... and at the same time I don't have to worry about that one freak incident where the rat will get the best of the snake. It's healthy... safe... and humane if you ask me. This is not my personal opinion but most of the general public will call you cruel for dumping a live rat in with a snake as the rat has no chance of escape and is doomed from the get go. People find it cruel that we instigate a situation where one animal is put in to be killed and eaten by another animal. They view it as cruel because the rat does suffer. I just don't understand how you could consider it inhumane to stun them... when you are about to send them to a pretty traumatic death as it is.

I really like your idea of feeding the fuzzies... actually alot better than stunning... I will keep that in mind for the future. I totally agree with using that method in this case. That makes perfect sense.

And also in defense of myself... A rat in my feeder bin = prey, a rat outside in the yard is a wild rodent (serves many roles in the ecosystem). A rat loose in my house = PEST that is a risk of infestation and poses sanitary issue. I would never kill a rat that was outside in it's natural habitat minding it's own buisness, and I never disregard the role that these animals play in nature... Nor will I disregard the roll they are trying to play when they get into my walls and try to reproduce. I wish I could remember which thread i read it on but somebody made a funny comment saying that everytime before they thump that rat and drop 'em in they feel a sense of justice by saying "This is for the Black Plague."

Thanks for the informative post!