Extreme Genetics

[soy.lor.n]

I'm always interested in figuring out more of what's possible
do we know anything about what genes are on the same chromosome?
I was talking about that when we were discussing incompatible lines of...hypo I believe. (About the importance of knowing if they're on the same chromosome, not about crossing over, which can also be important)
The way I understand crossing over (and this is only from AP Biology, so I could definitely be wrong, although my Bio teacher was pretty much the best ever) is that it happens every time, but with only a few genes, so the location of the trait on the chromosome is really important.
Anyway, could be interesting...

[soy.lor.n]

I think that we could eventually seperate some traits from Ball Pythons for varying reasons, including, to eliminate a "bad" gene, or to put one trait with another, as described in your example. I think if we had some contact with a genetics lab, we could possibly make a Spider that didn't carry the spinning trait, a Caramel that didn't carry the kinking trait. a Green eyed Leucistic, or even possibly a Super Spider (if it is indeed lethal).

That's exactly what I was thinking, after all this debate over wobbling, lol
As for the Super Spider, why do people think it's lethal? Do all spiders produced from spider x spider breeding always have some normal offspring?

[ctrlfreq]

As for the Super Spider, why do people think it's lethal?

AFAIK, it's simply because there has never been a proven SS.

Do all spiders produced from spider x spider breeding always have some normal offspring?

Since the gene is considered dominant, I don't believe anyone has really made a project out of trying to prove an individual spider to be homozygous, since doing so would not be cost-effective, and, even if the subject were male, would take a number of seasons to reach a speculative conclusion, that could be undone at any point if the animal produced normal offspring.

[RandyRemington]

I suppose by watching for crossovers is how we might eventually find what is all part of the same gene and what is just closely linked separate genes. I suspect that blue eyes, kinks, and spinning are all part of the same gene that makes the lesser complex, caramels (and cinnamon), and spiders respectively and can't be crossed out but certainly worth trying.

With the large number of ball python mutations we might eventually find some close linking of separate mutant genes. One speculation is that since it’s taken a long time to produce a true ghost (axanthic + hypomelanistic) that could indicate linking between those two recessive mutations. Maybe we'll need a crossover to make progress toward the double homozygous recessive true ghost. Once we have a crossover to pair two closely linked mutations it will make for some interesting breeding results in later generations.

A good question is why there appear to be so many different mutant variations of the blue eyed white snake gene (lesser, mojave, phantom, Vin Russo, mocha, hidden/dilute). Maybe these are separate but closely linked genes. But given the interactions they have with each other (producing white snakes generally) I'd also guess here that we are talking about the same gene without crossover potential. I think the hidden/dilute allele that pairs with lesser to make a platy is just like the other alleles except that it isn't visible by its self or even when homozygous.

[colemaj]

Alright, yeah, I was incorrect about isolating the gene to make the normal blue eyed recessive... they are a possible offspring but it would be hard to know without breeding.

Basically, if you have a clutch of, we'll say two mojaves for BEL. You get 1/4 normal, 1/2 mojave, 1/2 blue eyed leucistic. Now... If the Gene for blue eyes is separate than the leucistic gene, it may have crossed over in a percentage of the offspring. If it crosses over on the normal chromosome of one of the mojaves, you'd have a blue eyed mojove, if it crosses over onto either chromosome for the normal, breeding it to a blue eyed leucistic would produce 1/2 blue eyed mojove's. A blue eyed mojave would have one Mojove/blue eyed chromosome and one blue eyed chromosome. That could be bred out to isolate the blue eyed gene. It's basically a matter of waiting for a blue eyed mojave, or breeding the normals from the Mojave children to mojaves/BEL.

The same goes with spider wobble, etc. The difference is, I'd guess the blue eyed gene is recessive while the wobble might be co-dom/dom.

Now, let me know what you think about this next part. Perhaps Homozygous wobble is deadly, but hetero is survivable. This would explain why no super spider exists.... If you isolated it, you'd have yourself(potentially) a new morph.. or a homozygous spider.

[PythonWallace]

If it crosses over on the normal chromosome of one of the mojaves, you'd have a blue eyed mojove, if it crosses over onto either chromosome for the normal, breeding it to a blue eyed leucistic would produce 1/2 blue eyed mojove's. A blue eyed mojave would have one Mojove/blue eyed chromosome and one blue eyed chromosome. That could be bred out to isolate the blue eyed gene. It's basically a matter of waiting for a blue eyed mojave, or breeding the normals from the Mojave children to mojaves/BEL.

You're saying that the blue eye trait is recessive or possibly homozygous co-dominant, so if the blue eye gene crossed over in one, wouldn't you have a mojave that was double het for blue eyes, since what you're effectively doing is pulling one of the mutated allelles from the chromosome that would normally need both copies to express the phenotype, and pairing it up with another non-mutated allelle on a different chromosome? This is a new and interesting concept to me, but I'm a little confused about how the cross over phenotypes would be expressed.

[KCBALLer]

For normal people it would mean breeding it out (this could take years) or waiting for some one else to do it and buy the "hets" for $50,000. it would be some what easier for other people with connections at a lab who could actually monitor chromosome blueprints . the guesssing game would be minimal.

[Drew87]

wow this is a great post but my head is spinning so much info its great

[Brimstone111888]

For normal people it would mean breeding it out (this could take years) or waiting for some one else to do it and buy the "hets" for $50,000. it would be some what easier for other people with connections at a lab who could actually monitor chromosome blueprints . the guesssing game would be minimal.

They would still have to map the ball python genome first, before any genes could be seen or studied.

[soy.lor.n]

Hey JW, you're the first Ron Paul supporter I've noticed on here!

/hijack