inbreeding

[Brimstone111888]

Haha a biology class. As most people have already told you, inbreeding isn't as serious in reptiles as humans, because we are massively more complicated, just in the fact we are warm blooded.

Also whenever you are breeding any morph it is some form of inbreeding(unless from other W.C.s Pastels etc). Some morphs are specifically line bred for the purpose of creating better morphs. The people doing a lot of the cutting edge breeding are big animal people and if they saw a defect, I am almost POSITIVE they would discontinue it.

[Sasquatch Art]

Where you going somewhere with this?

What I believe Ben was saying was....

In Royal families (England and Egypt for example) would marry and have children within their family, in order to keep their blood line Royal/Pure.

I could be totally wrong but that is what I was thinking....Goes along with the whole inbreeding thing

[Texas Dan]

What I believe Ben was saying was....

In Royal families (England and Egypt for example) would marry and have children within their family, in order to keep their blood line Royal/Pure.

I could be totally wrong but that is what I was thinking....Goes along with the whole inbreeding thing

Yeah, I figured that, I just thought there'd be an example to follow. All he really had to put instead would be...

Arkansas


lol

[littleindiangirl]

WHY IS INBREEDING AND OUTCROSSING SO IMPORTANT?
I would like to write a little about lab rats if I may.

Everyone should know about certain strains of rats are mice are more than likely inbred, and will actually say inbred or outcrossed when looking up this information. The Sprague Dewley rats and many other lines are all inbred from an original group of animals many years ago for consistency in genotypes, making it easier to control any variables in research.

These rats have been inbred many times for specific genes, traits and also outcrossed genes that were undesireable in the line. The result, a very stable line of rats that all carry the same genes, same phenotypes, and also aid in a very stable median for researchers.

Do these animals resembling the disfigured humans from " The Hills have eyes"? Absolutely not! They look no different from out crossed rats, breed just like outbred rats, and have the same if not MORE pups and success in each litter.

Why? Because the detrimental simple recessive genes have been "bred out" of the line.



We will have an increasingly smaller number of ball python imports coming across the ocean every year.

Inbreeding does cause MANY genetic defects come out, but rarely does it CAUSE the mutations.
There are so many different reasons why these diseases surface, but we will use for our purposes a simple recessive trait of the fatty zucker rats.

Fatty zucker rats carry a recessive gene that causes diabetes and other failures in the brain. Rats that are inbred and selectively out bred can be succesfully freed of the horrible Zucker gene.

While this inbreeding is happening, (father to daughter) they may also find that this line of rats carry some other genetic disease, and with consequent generations, can find the root cause and successfully breed it out of the line.
(I know, poor example, but wanted to get the gist of it down)

Inbreeding is very important, not only to find the phenotype of a co-dom trait, but also to reveal any problems in a certain bloodline.

I for one think it is incredibly responsible to inbreed for the purpose of research and having undesirable traits be bred out.

As far as I know off hand, the only genetic defect from any morph was the spider wobble, and the cinnamon's duck bill.

This hasn't been described as an inherited disease that can be passed to a NON-morph animal of each respective gene, and is attributed greatly to the effects of the co-dom trait itself.


Sorry to ramble, but inbreeding is not as detrimental as many of you may think.

[LadyOhh]

As far as I know off hand, the only genetic defect from any morph was the spider wobble, and the cinnamon's duck bill.

The Pearl (Super Woma) is a fatal combo.

[littleindiangirl]

Oh yea, thanks Heather! Forgot about that one, don't hear about it too often

[Freakie_frog]

Caramels Kink..

and I think hint hint that I heard tell of a Peal that was made using another gene to strengthen it.

[littleindiangirl]

Well, you both are bringing up some very good points.

Pearl LETHAL can't really be "bred out" per se, because it is directly linked to the gene(s) that cause the phenotypical morph, I think.
You would have to just not breed womas.

But....
I think there are people who have had great success breeding animals with no wobble, no duckbill, and even less kinks per clutch.

A lot has to do with selectively breeding your animals for those traits you want the least.

[Crazydude]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazydude

Royal family in England
Pharoahs of egypt


Where you going somewhere with this?

Sorry i had figured that most people do get that they had health problems, Maybe i wrongly assumed, Anyway, Many Pharoahs that have been found have defects that are recessive and assumed to be a result of inbreeding, Like the long narrow head of King Tut, a illness related to inbreeding is one theory of his death.

English royal family up until the past few centuries stayed in the family, along with some other groups of people, for keeping money in the family, and for political reasons. Most of these had health problems, shorter lifes, ext.

Thats what i meant when i said it, Just didnt elaborate because i thought it was common knowlage, My bad, sorry.

Littleindiangirl, I think in general, if done correctly it is ok, like your example, Another example to support you is domesticated cows. Look at cows in other countries ours are the only with black and white spots, and shaped like that, big fat ext. Most have protruding shoulders, skinny, weird looking and brown or black. these were selectivly inbreed to create the perfect milk cow. I dont know to much on that, but i dont beleive there are any drastic backfires from it.

But i dont beleive its necissary in anything, Mother-son, Sister-brother, that concerns me, Once its proven, OUTCROSS. Thats really all that can be done. I have heard of the 10 generation thing, like mentioned, but this may have been fine others not.

Think, Do you know anyone that tests for geneticly inherited diseases in any reptile? I dont mean things like adenovirus or IBD. More of things like wobble head ext. If a breeder has disease and mutation (detrimental mutation) free animals and inbreeds and no harm is done, Fine. But the average joe wont know what to look for, and will just take two animals, breed and sell. And that is similar to people flooding the market with low grade pastels ext. They are not needed, and do harm to the market, and morph. Where as inbreed animals that dont have a purpose flood the market with little genetic diversity, and possible health problems.

Think how often a kid, or guy, or lady goes into a petstore, they say reptiles are social, they get two, They grow up, low grade petstore animals that are from the same place, Usually same clutch or parents breed, The person wants to try hatching them. what do you get? No diversity and possible health problems.

Now there is always that line that should not be crossed, If we have ball pythons with seethrough skin, Or they start getting physical addaptations or mutations that are not related to patern or eye color. Like silkback bearded dragons, a perfect example of going to far.

Anyway, I dont think its needed, We want morphs as humans, but we can live without them. Now im not going to preach that we shouldnt have animals and specifically select what we want, if not gone to far its fine IMO. But if there is genetically inherited problems or problems do to relation of all animals, then it will go right back to the people inbreeding to create morphs.

Again, its the gray to look at, But in general, Inbreeding is not helpful in any form to genetic diversity. But does have use in creating our coveted morphs. Would you like it if over time all ball pythons were similar?

Ben

[littleindiangirl]

Again, its the gray to look at, But in general, Inbreeding is not helpful in any form to genetic diversity. But does have use in creating our coveted morphs. Would you like it if over time all ball pythons were similar?

Ben

Maybe you missed the whole point. Inbreeding is not for genetic diversity, and most of our morphs are simple recessive, but mostly co-dom. Needing only one generation of mother son breeding to get the homozygous form.

Do you have any specific evidence of genetic mutations caused by inbreeding that you are referring to?

There is still a steady supply of new blood being imported, and most large breeders do indeed out cross, especially with the large number of co-dom morphs with only a normal female needed.

Most pet stores do not breed their own animals, are they are notoriously WC animals. So that theory is bust.