Okay- I'll throw my perspective into the ring and see what comes of it... Jas, you're a butt-head and I mean that lovingly. With the title of your post, it appears that you wanted to stir it up; and you have~ and this is good. I appreciate those who think and act outside of the prescribed norm to experiment with what works for them and what does not. I also appreciate that John has been at this for some time and so is being responsible within his experiments and procedures. What I think is counterproductive to your argument, John, is when you become angry and threaten to not share or post about breeding any more because of the responses you receive from some others; certainly you must have anticipated some of these responses based on the general proscription of breeding prior to 1500g and their third winter...? Anyway, that said, I really appreciate you sharing what is working for you and what isn't working. Thank you

As for some of the other responses that, insofar as I read them, are just wanting to discredit John and his methods with this snake, I say "Humbug to you" I am a strong proponent of knowledge and education and colleague respect and some members of this forum are, in my opinion, forgetting that opinion and personal breeding methodology has nothing to do with a totalitarian regime for breeding ball pythons!!

It seems to me that some people are very very invested in their opinions of what works and what does not work and so therefore their way is the only way and anger and snottiness ensues if any other way is shared. I don't get it

To John I say: Thanks for sharing and for pushing the envelope of education. To some members I say: Thanks for encouraging John's clarity and continued involvement in this discussion. To other members I say: Be open to learning other ways of doing things. Jas isn't trying to change anyone's breeding methods; he's just sharing his own (and yes, stirring the pot! )

Well, that's it. Thanks for my time on the soap box!!