Rats Vs. Mice Question and Testimonial

[littleindiangirl]

I think you guys noticed something neat, but I have to whole heartedly agree with Adam. Your getting more food into the snake from one feeding, use less energy to constrict and swallow then a few mice etc. I think it's more efficient to feed one rat instead of a few mice. I have no problem with mice, just whatever works for the snake. (not even sure the multiple mice is using any more calories, but you do get more bang for your buck w/ one rat.)

Now I would also like to add something, these snakes very well could have gone through their respective growth spurts, just not at the exact same time. Young snakes grow a lot, and I'm sure you know that. I sometimes open my young ones tub and am amazed at how much they've grown. (I deal mainly with the rats, so may not see them every single week )

Different snakes, different metabolisms, different growth rates. I think you have something to think about, but there are just too many variables to peg it all to just food item. Look at Jasball's 07 female's breeding, how many snakes can do that? How many grow like a ****ens and slow down to a crawl?

Genetics, husbandry, food items, stress/enviromental cues, they all have a hand in how a snake grows, so it's hard to say that feeding rats is better than mice pertaining to growth rate, or vice versa.

I don't want to rain on your parade so much, I just think the evidence leaves much to be desired and is very inconclusive. But congratulations on the post, it is something to ponder.

[MelissaFlipski]

Nice posts, guys. Keep up the research.

Fat content higher in rat pups (age and species)?
Live more nutritious? I know I would prefer a fresh steak to a frozen one!

Control your variables (F/T vs. live and weights of prey) and do it again. I can't wait to see your results.

[herpmajor]

Yeah keep it up. It will make feeding time more interesting. But I agree control your variables and give us the results. I am sure lots of people here would like to see them.

[PythonChick]

I think everyone misunderstood just a little. I didn't mean to present this as a scientific study or hard evidence to the fact that rats are better than mice for feeding ball pythons or any other snake. I just thought it was very interesting that my balls were growing at approximately the same rate, and that that rate was much slower than that of my roommates' who were also growing at about the same rate as each other, but much faster than mine. I know this is no guarantee of genetics or anything, but the two CH girls were purchased from the same breeder at the same time and were approximately the same size at the beginning. Initially pumpkin (my CH girl) grew much faster. This was during the time period when we first got them and they were our only balls and they were both feeding on mice. Once my roomie switched to rats, however, Pecan quickly surpassed pumpkin in both growth rate and weight. This was the same case with my pastel male and her pastel female. They were both purchased from the same breeder at the same time. She started out much slower, but quickly caught up once she had a few weeks on rat pups. I know snakes can grow at different rates from one another, but I find it strange that ALL of her snakes would have hit their growth spurts while NONE of mine have. Being that there are so many experienced keepers on this board, I was only looking for some opinions on why this might be, and trying to present the facts as they happened/ as we recorded them. It will be interesting though. If I ever get to the point where I am breeding a few clutches a year, I might try randomly assigning them to groups and feeding them different things once they get established. That will be a long time from now though. For the moment I will be keeping mine on rat pups, just to see if they continue to grow at an accelerated rate. Thanks for the posts everyone, you have all pointed out some factors we hadn't thought about!

[JoshJP7]

I have a little tweak to your test that you could try... Since we tend to think that rats are "more nutritional" for snakes than mice you should be able to feed a smaller rat than mouse and still get the same results... Like adam said youd need a scale to weigh out the rats but feed more mice and less rat and see what happens... If rats are more nutritional you should be able to feed less and get more... I dont think it makes a difference, mice or rats as long as your snakes eating something.

[SatanicIntention]

Ever think what all of that high fat content is doing to their heart and other organs? I'll stick with sirloin(mice) versus brisket(rats).

This girl look like she's suffering any? When I rescued her she was 780g at around 3 years old. 1 mouse a month.. After I got her in May 06, she gained over 1500g between then and December 06 on just 3 and sometimes 4 mice a week. That's not on retired breeder mice either.. just normal sized, healthy adult mice. She's now over 2200g and doesn't have much fat on her at all.

[PigsnPythons]

Like Emily said, we didn't mean for our post to be taken as hard scientific fact. We just thought that it might bring up some interesting discussion, which it mostly has done. To you mouse-feeders, there really is no need to get defensive. I mean its not like we posted a thread titled "Mice Will Make Your Snakes Shrink! Don't Feed Them!" We just related our experience with feeding mice vs. rats. Thanks again for all of the replies and discussion!

[littleindiangirl]

Like Emily said, we didn't mean for our post to be taken as hard scientific fact. We just thought that it might bring up some interesting discussion, which it mostly has done. To you mouse-feeders, there really is no need to get defensive. I mean its not like we posted a thread titled "Mice Will Make Your Snakes Shrink! Don't Feed Them!" We just related our experience with feeding mice vs. rats. Thanks again for all of the replies and discussion!

but I find it strange that ALL of her snakes would have hit their growth spurts while NONE of mine have. Being that there are so many experienced keepers on this board, I was only looking for some opinions on why this might be, and trying to present the facts as they happened/ as we recorded them.

Well, if you didn't mean to make it sound like fact, you sure are arguing it that way. Can't expect the mousers here to not have some sort of rebuttal. I agree it was a neat trend, but as many have said, including me, the small bit of evidence is VERY unreliable, esp when there are so many people out there like Becky that feed primarily mice with some fat butt snakes.

I think in this case the amount of food was more to blame as the cause than anything else, but I wasn't there so I can't be for sure.

If you do someday breed some animals and can control all of your settings, I think this would be an excellent experiment. Just don't expect anyone to put much credence into it now.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.