Lucy's

[bait4snake]

I'm also curious about the differences between the Lesser BEL and the Butter BEL. I like the way Butters look, but do they affect the BEL?

[Alice]

I'm also curious about the differences between the Lesser BEL and the Butter BEL. I like the way Butters look, but do they affect the BEL?

Good question. I know Butter BELs look very different than Mojo BELS but I have not seen a side-by-side comparison between a Lesser BEL, a combo BEL (Lesser/Mojo, Butter/Mojo, Lesser/Butter), and a Butter BEL. In fact, my BEL is the only one I've seen from a Butter.

I have seen numerous Lesser BELs, and I think, like other ball python morphs, there are sometimes color differences within the BELs from any "line" in the "platinum complex." Some of the Lesser BELs I've seen at the same time had some that were whiter than others, some had a more pronounced dorsal stripe, etc. and I would expect the same from any of the "lines" (Butter, Mojo, Russo, or a combo). As always, quality rules!

I snatched my BEL up as soon as I saw it since I do like the look of the Butter more than the Lesser, but there are still many unanswered questions and differing opinions about the BELs. For example, what do you get when you breed a combo BEL (let's use Lesser/Mojo) to a normal? Do you get just Lessers and Mojos or are there some normals in the clutch? Does the clutch contain another BEL? The answer, IMHO, depends on whether the BEL is a super form of the platimum complex snakes or another combo like a bumblebee. I think that a combo BEL is a super form from the "Platinum complex" but many well respected breeders disagree. This year should shed some light on many questions surrounding the BELs.

There are some BP.net members that have been working with Butters and Lessers for a while longer than I have and might be able to shed some light on the matter.

[JeffFlanagan]

For example, what do you get when you breed a combo BEL (let's use Lesser/Mojo) to a normal? Do you get just Lessers and Mojos or are there some normals in the clutch? Does the clutch contain another BEL?

That's basic genetics. You'll get Lessers and Mojos since the Lucy has a mutant allele from each parent and can pass along one or the other, the offspring will get either, but not both.

The answer, IMHO, depends on whether the BEL is a super form of the platimum complex snakes or another combo like a bumblebee. I think that a combo BEL is a super form from the "Platinum complex"

I think it's obviously a super form of the platinum complex. I can't think of any combo morph that is so radically different from it's parents, but this kind of difference is common with codoms.

but many well respected breeders disagree.

Who, and why?

[hgrub]

you're saying that if lesser x mojave is considered a combo then breed them to normal and you have a chance to have another bel, lesser, mojave, and normal.

But if lesser x mojave is a super form, then breed them to normal and all you get are lesser and mojave(same concept as breeding super pastel to normal and you will get only pastel and nothing else.

I think lesser x mojave bel is a super form imo...whichever other platinum complex you put in a group.

The weird thing is how the heck russo het and Mocha can be mix into the group of platinum complex. I mean I know that they are in the platinum complex group. Those two morphs are totally different from Mojave, Lesser, Butter, Phantom. They look just like a normal for an untrained eye.

[hgrub]

some combo do look very different from their based morph though. For example NERD's lesser x woma. And that's about it I can think of

[bait4snake]

I talked to Wes, formerly of MKR, and they bred their LesserXMojave BEL to 15 normals and got nothing but Lessers and Mojaves Just FYI

I have my own ideas about the "platinum complex"
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49935

Ralph just proved a major part of this theory too in his clutch 76. He bred two Plattys together and got a "normal"... if this theory is correct, then this is the only proveable Homozygous "Hidden" or "Dilute" gene. He's going to breed it to one of his Super Lesser BEL, and if the theory is correct, then all that will be produced is Plattys.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and thank you Alice for your opinions about the Butter vs the Lesser line. I guess all that really matters is what true Leucistic your Het comes from, be it a Butter or a Lesser. I do personally like Butters better because of the yellow, but I DO want the best white patternless snake.

It just goes to show... having a Lesser or a Butter doesn't guarantee you'll get the best Leucistic. Maybe we'll all start buying our Lessers and Butters based on what the Leucistic mother or father looks like.

[Alice]

I talked to Wes, formerly of MKR, and they bred their LesserXMojave BEL to 15 normals and got nothing but Lessers and Mojaves Just FYI.

Good info, thanks

I have my own ideas about the "platinum complex"
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49935

Very good info and solid theory. It helps that I agree with your position! lol

Ralph just proved a major part of this theory too in his clutch 76. He bred two Plattys together and got a "normal"... if this theory is correct, then this is the only proveable Homozygous "Hidden" or "Dilute" gene. He's going to breed it to one of his Super Lesser BEL, and if the theory is correct, then all that will be produced is Plattys.

Interesting . . . I can't wait to see the results.

Oh, and thank you Alice for your opinions about the Butter vs the Lesser line. I guess all that really matters is what true Leucistic your Het comes from, be it a Butter or a Lesser. I do personally like Butters better because of the yellow, but I DO want the best white patternless snake.

It just goes to show... having a Lesser or a Butter doesn't guarantee you'll get the best Leucistic. Maybe we'll all start buying our Lessers and Butters based on what the Leucistic mother or father looks like.

I agree that we should be buying based on the linage of the mother and father. Sorta like we do now with the G-Stripe.

[Papo15]

wuz up cuz i dont know that much about this place yet

[Louie1]

Anybody know anything about the Flame-(Super) that Amir is working with? Just saw the pictures Greg G posted on KS and that to me is the purest white Lucy I have seen! I can't find anymore info on it though.

[BChambers]

From what I read it's a FIRE Black-Eyed or variant of same. More breeding needs to be done to determine that.