The BEL section of my Genetics Page

[bait4snake]

Hey, I'm about to add this to my Genetics page. Let me know what you all think. Any additions or clarification on anything would be very helpful. I try to be as laymen as possible so it's more understandable (I remember being a novice at genetics, lol).

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The Blue Eyed Leucistic (BEL) is also a co-dominant morph. Its Heterozygous form is a visible morph. All the Het BEL lines (Lesser, Butter, Mojave, Vin Russo, Phantom, etc) are slight variations of the same gene. They will produce different shades of white when bred as a pure lineage (Mojave x Mojave produces a white snake with a purplish head) or as a combination (Lesser x Mojave). The homozygous Phantom, or Super Phantom, isn't even all white; it's a bright silver with a lot of pattern. Though combined with a Lesser, it makes a BEL. It's debateable which pure line will produce the cleanest white BEL, but personally my vote is the Lesser.

Because all Het BEL lines are variations of the same gene, breeding a Lesser and a Mojave together doesn't make the white snake they produce a Double Het Lesser/Mojave BEL... it simply makes it a homozygous BEL. Let me explain.

A normal will be designated as WW, a Het BEL will be designated Ww, and a BEL will be designated as ww. Since there are a few lines of Het BEL, a number will be designated next to each w to differenciate between the lines.

Normal = WW
Lesser = Ww1
Mojave = Ww2
Butter = Ww3
Phantom = Ww4
Vin Russo = Ww5

If you bred a Lesser to a Mojave, the outcome will be:

....W....w2
W WW Ww2
w1 Ww1 w1w2

Each egg produced will statistically have a 25% chance of being a Normal, a 25% of being a Lesser, a 25% chance of being a Mojave, and a 25% chance of being a BEL (Lesser/Mojave cross).

Now, if you bred this particular BEL to a Normal, the outcome will be:

....w1....w2
W Ww1 Ww2
W Ww1 Ww2

Each egg produced will statistically have a 50% chance of being a Lesser and a 50% chance of being a Mojave.

It was originally thought that breeding two lines of BEL together would produce a white snake that's actually a Double Het, but if that were true, then breeding a "Double Het Lesser/Mojave BEL" to a Normal would have produced 25% normals, 25% Lessers, 25% Mojaves, and 25% BEL. But Morph King Reptiles bred their Lesser/Mojave BEL to fifteen normal females, and not one clutch produced normals or BELs. Therefore, all lines of the BEL are related; they just slightly vary.

If you ever buy a BEL and want to know its true genetics, breed it to a normal. It will either produce one or two of the visible Hets listed above.


Then there's the Platty Daddy (Platinum). The Platty Daddy was originally bought by Ralph Davis. He bred it to a normal female and got some snakes that looked like the Platty Daddy, but not quite as "hypomelanistic" or light... so he called them Lesser Platinums (this is where we get the Lesser line of Het BELs). He also got some normal snakes in the same clutch. He bred the Platty Daddy to one of the Lesser daughters and got normals, Lessers, Platinums, and to his surprise BELs. He also bred the Platty Daddy to one of the first generation normal females, and got normals, Lessers, and more Platinums.

It was proven that the Lessers were visibly Het BEL, but what was causing the lightening appearance of the Platty Daddy?

It was originally thought that the Platty Daddy was visibly Heterozygous for BEL and homozygous for a recessive Hypo gene. He bred two of the "normal" offspring together believing them to be Hets for the Hypo gene, but got nothing but normals. The "Hidden Gene" only seemed to be visible when combine with the Lesser gene.

My theory, and I'm not alone on this, is that the "Hidden Gene" is yet another variation of the same "white snake" gene, much like all other forms of the white snake gene (Lessers, Mojaves, Phantoms, Butters, Vin Russo's, and another I saw recently as a wild caught).

It is also very unlikely that a wild caught specimen would be heterozygous for BEL and also homozygous for a completely different hypomelanistic gene that is only visible when combine with the heterozygous BEL gene.

My theory would make the Platty Daddy as much of a homozygous white snake as a Blue Eyed Leucistic. The one difference between the Hidden gene and all the other variations of the same BEL gene is that it can't be seen in its heterozygous or homozygous form. It can only be seen when paired with a BEL gene.

Normal = WW
Lesser = Ww1
BEL = w1w1
Platty Daddy = w1w6
Het Hidden = Ww6
Homo Hidden = w6w6



Platty x Normal

......W......W
w1 Ww1 Ww1
w6 Ww6 Ww6

Result = Lessers and Het Hidden "normal sibs"



Platty x Lesser

......W......w1
w1 Ww1 w1w1
w6 Ww6 w1w6

Result = Lessers, Plattys, BEL, Het Hidden "normal sibs"



Platty x Het Hidden "normal sib

......W......w6
w1 Ww1 w1w6
w6 Ww6 w6w6

Result = Lessers, Plattys, and 50% Poss Homo Hidden "normal sibs"



Platty x Platty

......w1......w6
w1 w1w1 w1w6
w6 w1w6 w6w6

Result = BEL, Plattys, Homo Hidden "normal sibs"



BEL x Het Hidden "normal sib

......W......w6
w1 Ww1 w1w6
w1 Ww1 w1w6

Result = Lesser, Platty



BEL x Homo Hidden "normal sib"

......w6......w6
w1 w1w6 w1w6
w1 w1w6 w1w6




The Hidden gene can be combined with all the other forms of the Het BEL as well. It has already been combined with the Butter (w3w6).

For the Butter Daddy, Ralph Davis bred the Original Butter to a first generation "normal sib" female from the Platty Daddy:

....W....w6
W WW Ww6
w3 Ww3 w3w6

It is my opinion that this can be done with any of the Het BEL lines, and the same process probably made the Crystal Ball.

[NickMyers03]

when Ralph bred the platty daddy to a lesser daughter he did not produce plattys. this only happens when bred to a lesser sib with the hidden gene

[bait4snake]

when Ralph bred the platty daddy to a lesser daughter he did not produce plattys. this only happens when bred to a lesser sib with the hidden gene

Here's Ralph's own words: "Platties are still only being produced from breeding a Lesser that is sired by Platty Daddy to a normal looking that is sired by Platty Daddy....or Platty Daddy x normal sib or Lesser. "

[NickMyers03]

missed that last part when reading i guess

thanks

[bait4snake]

Please... please... get up. It's embarassing, lol.

Thank you for questioning it though. I actually want to be picked apart in case I missed something. I don't mind being wrong; it's just a theory.

[RandyRemington]

Very good and I think right on.

The only improvements I could think of are minor.

For one, when you put it up on your page perhaps you can use html to format the numbers as subscripts. But already using numbers has an advantage over the letters I've been using in that it's less likely to look like two genes. However, it might be easier for a reader to remember your notation with letters like wv for Vin Russo rather than w5 so it's a trade off.

Also, you might consult some geneticists (or maybe you are one) about capitalization. I know it changes from group to group even among geneticists but I would be tempted to make the mutant version W and the normal w because these are (for the most part) dominant to normal mutations.

And does anyone know the right terminology for this situation where an animal has two mutant versions of the same gene? You have done a good job of explaining that it's different than a double heterozygous for mutant versions of two different genes. I really think that the cross line leucistics aren't technically homozygous either because they have different mutant alleles of the same gene but I thought there was a word to describe that situation. I guess "bred as a pure lineage" gets your point across but maybe there could be some different terminology there.

Also, for some reason I had trouble with this sentence until I read it a few times:

"Because all Het BEL lines are variations of the same gene, breeding a Lesser and a Mojave together doesn't make the white snake they produce a Double Het Lesser/Mojave BEL... it simply makes it a homozygous BEL."

I think I was getting hung up at first thinking you where saying lesser X mojave doesn't produce a white snake. Maybe it was just me but if not this might be easier to understand the first pass:

"Breeding a lesser and a mojave together can produce a white snake. However, because all the het BEL lines are variations of the same gene, that white snake is not a Double Het Lesser/Mojave BEL ... it's simply a homozygous BEL."

But this goes back to if there is a better term for an animal that has two different mutant copies of the same gene. Technically I don't think it's homozygous because the copies are different. However, it's certainly important that it doesn't have room for a normal copy of that gene. I just don't know the right terminology.

[bait4snake]

I actually have reworded that sentence because it kept hanging me up too, lol (and I might use your wording in the end).

I don't exactly know the terminology we're talking about, but that's kind of the point. If you didn't notice, I never even used the word "allele" because I wanted to make it as laymen as possible. I'm really into genetics and such, but EVEN MY eyes glaze over when I get into technical terminology.

I can be the smartest person in the room, but if nobody understands me I might as well be speaking jiberish.

It's like research papers or academic journals... I can either say "those authors exemplify persons experiencing cranium/glutious inversion" or I can say "they have their heads up their........"

Thank you for your post. I was hoping to hear from you or "Mendel".