breeding the youngsters!!

[littleindiangirl]

Yes, you would have to watch the animal very closely and know what you're doing, but in theory it sounds very possible and not dentrimental to the animal's health.

You state that in theory, it sounds very possible and not detrimental to the animal's health. Call me picky, but I think more than 1 successful pairing and offspring are needed before it can be ruled as "not detrimental".

There is just plainly not enough evidence to state otherwise. The chance that it is detrimental is still there until it can be proven over and over as being safe. Whether that's just Jas, or other keepers.

If these two females are exceptional, with those genetics that make them grow like weeds and breed at a year of age, then maybe it's a project to see if it is actually nature vs. nurture. That is something I am keenly interested in.

Did Jas' awesome skills get them to breed early, or was it their genetics that leads them to early maturing? Only time and practice will tell.

[python.princess]

someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought i read something in a thread a while back about jas doing this successfully before.... it's not the first year... he does have some experience with it.

[Seneschal]

Connie,
In that particular quote I was referring to the theory that it was possible and not detrimental to the animal's health to feed small meals very frequently to bring, for an example, a very early 07 female up to breeding size for the same year breeding season.

However, I'm under the impression that Jas is an experienced hand at this...I may be wrong, I digress, but that's my belief.

I was also basing my opinion on the looks of the female post-laying he posted a picture of; she looked healthy, if a bit lean, and didn't seem to be at all in bad health.

I do think it would be very, very interesting to see how the young females' babies mature; in humans, having sex at increasingly young ages has reduced the age at which we are fertile, and in flies it is possible to extend the lifespan threefold within 15 generations by forcing the flies to breed at later ages. (This was done by scientists as an experiment.) In theory by doing something similar humans, snakes...anything...could be genetically altered into earlier sexual maturity or longer life spans. This is an interesting endeavour on Jas' part and I'd like to keep updated on the status of both the mothers and the babies.

Like I said...everything I said in my other post is only my opinion, observations, and conjecture from what I have seen, heard, and gathered through research, all put together into a theory. I try to think anything I write and post on here through completely...but you do raise a good point.

As I said; in theory it's entirely possible and non-detrimental to the animals' health...but the best way to prove or disprove that theory--the only way in fact--is to experiment multiple times and consistently get concrete results. In conclusion...

Jas: The only way we can get a concrete answer is if you keep breeding like you have been. Keep it up, and keep us posted on how everybody does, please!

I support the scientific method!

[P2R]

This is a very good discussion.

I have a good question.

What is keeping other people from breeding their first year females? Is it the fact that they are not successful in the dramatic weight gain, or is it their idea of "what is correct" telling them not to breed their, weight appropriate, first year female.

I am not necessarily looking for written answers, just creating something to think about.

How many of you have even been able to get the females weight up so quickly and passed on breeding?

[bigballs]

Anyone else got 07's breeding yet?!?!

the youngest i got going now is an '06 pastel female that started breeding this year in november '07 at 1 year and 2 months old and 1100g. she has locked up with a pastel male 4 times and i think she is producing follicles because she is getting bigger. this is my first year breeding so i dont really understand the process but i would never have tried to breed her if i thought her health was at risk. she is a very agressive feeder, very lean and was a solid 1100g at first breeding.
from everything i have read and was told from the experienced people at bp.net, she will not produce eggs if she is not mature or if it will put her health at risk. also a large or overweight female has the same or greater risk of becoming egg bound as a younger female.
i love and respect all my snakes(and reptiles) as pets and would never risk their health to try for a quick clutch for a quick buck. also i dont power feed and would not try purposely to breed small females. if they get to a reasonable breeding size on the same one small rat a week feeding schedule as every other snake and are in great health then why not try them. as long as you got the time, resources and knowledge.
sure i could have waited untill next year and maybe get a bigger clutch but knowing this female pastel she'll wolf down a rat every week until next breeding season and do it all over again at an even larger weight than this year. but if not then ill give her time off.
so thats my reasoning and predictions but being my first year only time will tell...

[West Coast Jungle]

18 months was the earliest I got a female to successfully become gravid.

My rule is 1400-1500 grams but everyone has their way of doing things.

As in anything in life you should know the rules before you try to bend them.

Jas seems to know what he is doing, has the experience to back it up and has been successful at it.

What I have found is the odds of a female not becoming gravid is higher when she is younger. That doesn't mean she can't, just that many won't.

Also the bigger she is the more eggs you'll get

[hgrub]

Like many people said...if it's not working(for Jas) why he can keep breeding his animals young?

What I think everyone miss to point out is that Jas knows how to take care of animals. He can't just powerfeed them and breed them successfully coz fat animals hardly breed, good size animals do breed. Hat off to you Jas. Maybe you should start selling your own line of feeder rodent

[Ginevive]

How do you get '07's large enough to breed without powerfeeding? If you are powerfeeding them, is powerfeeding now OK and an acceptable thing to do?

[jknudson]

How do you get '07's large enough to breed without powerfeeding? If you are powerfeeding them, is powerfeeding now OK and an acceptable thing to do?

I would like to know what do you consider power feeding?

In all honesty I have younger animals that I feed more often, every 4-5 days... they get 30-40g adult mice or rats.... Their growth has been incredible....and their appetite is still just as ravenous as my snakes on a 7 day schedule. I definitely don't recommend that feeding schedule to everyone, but it works for me.

To some what I do may be considered power feeding, but to me...power feeding would be a 4-5 day schedule with the biggest rats you can stuff a snake with....however, more times than not those snakes eventually will go off feed.

[rabernet]

I also feed younger snakes on a 5 day schedule. As Tim pointed out to me in Birmingham, younger snakes in the wild eat as often as they can to get as big as they can quickly to be less likely to be prey themselves.