Dumbo rats....

[frankykeno]

I think the point needs made, and Wolfy touched on it in her post, that breeding your own feeders is not always just about saving money on your feeding costs.

I started breeding rats when we had about 5 snakes. Partly due to the cost savings (the pet store was awfully expensive) but also for two other even more valid reasons.

#1 - the pet store did not always have in stock the exact sizes that our snakes needed that week

#2 - though they did breed their own rodents and the quality of care was very high, that's not always the case in most pet stores that simply bring in feeders in bulk and often overcrowd them

Whether you want to have rats as pets, as pets that breed feeders for you, or straight up breeders for feeders that's your decision. The only thing I'll suggest is you simply purchase the rats from a source that knows your intentions. To lie to a pet/show rat breeder only gives other snakekeepers that breed rats a poor image so I'd avoid that.

You may well be able to find a member here that lives near you and can sell you a couple of lovely just weaned females (try starting a seperate thread on that and see if you get any responses). If not, you can check into reptile shows in your area, often rat breeders attend those. Last would be to check into local pet stores. There's nothing wrong with pet store rats from decent pet stores that care for them well and keep the males and females seperated.

Wherever you buy from, purchase recently weaned rats of around 5 or 6 weeks of age. Check them much as you would a puppy or kitten - clean bright eyes, dry nose (no red discharge from eyes or nose), clean dry butt, no sores on tail or the bottom of their feet, a nice clean coat free of bugs and laying flat to the rat's body (not fluffed up or mangy looking), no scabs on the skin under their coat, good body weight being not fat or skinny. A decent temperment, the rat will be skittish but shoudn't be obviously aggressive to you. Color and pattern are your choice but if you do intend to breed you may want to do some further research on certain genetic issues that you see more often with certain colors/patterns of rats.

[littleindiangirl]

Well, now we have one person saying the rats aren't as good as breeders, since they were bred as pets.
Then the next saying they got females from Petsmart, which is Pet rats, and they do great.

I think you misread my post. Fancy rat breeders, for show animals, are bred for looks, and finding the perfect rat. The underlying suggestion was that it may not be in her best interest to go in that route.

They could be fantastic breeders, producing a high volume of little rats, but I would think that a fancy rat breeder does not take into account how many rats average from a litter, and use it as a priority for the future pairings. It's more based on looks than high rat production.
For example, I choose the most outgoing and largest females to hold back. Looks is not a priority, but it's a bonus. I want large litters. I don't have any proof of anything, but it's just a train of thought to follow.

Buying from petsmart isn't all bad. I do have couple great females from there. Just saying that it is still an option when the chances of a fancy rat breeder selling to her are slim. Trying to keep options open in case this one route falls through!

[littleindiangirl]

Becky would have fountains more information on the fancy's pairings. And what your looking at when buying from a fancy breeder. Just keep in mind that lying is not very respectful to these people that put a lot of time and money into companion animals. It's pretty insulting to them, so be prepared for some flak.

[wolfy-hound]

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.
I didn't want to imply someone was trying to say two things at once. Just that some good breeding rats can come from anywhere. It's almost individual rats that make good breeders.

I agree with the telling the truth.
No one I know that breeds ball pythons would want to sell their baby hatchlings to someone to use as a feeder snake. So how would you feel to know that someone bought some for that?
Now, how would you feel if they bought your snakes to BREED babies to feed?
While I wouldn't want to sell my babies as feeders, I don't mind selling them as breeders. But that's ME with MY animals. If I buy from someone else, I try to abide with what THEY want.

[ADEE]

well said wolfy.. thats what i was trying to get across.

[Ginevive]

If you do want to breed, I don't see what's wrong with buying rats from a breeder. You'd seemingly be better off paying more, than going to a pet store which has a high turnover rats of animals, and little to no quarantine. I would read up on megacolon and the risks with breeding bicolored, mostly-white rats.
I feel kind of funny about someone telling me what I can or can't do with an animal that I have purchased. IMO, once it is mine, it is mine. If I want to breed it, spay/neuter it, or eat it, that would be my perogative if done humanely and in keeping with proper husbandry, etc. If someone does not want their sold animal bred, I think that they should get it spayed/neutered.. Now, in rescue situations, I can somewhat understand. Like with horses; some rescuers make an adoptee sign a waiver that allows them to come over and inspect the animal's living conditions, etc. at any time after and before the horse is adopted. Since this is something that the adoptee agrees on, when adopting, then I see nothing wrong with that. Yet, if I gave someone my word on not breeding their sold rat, I would not breed it. This is just not an honest practice; lying. Think of your reputation if the seller found out. But I would not give my word if I did not mean to keep it.
Breeding rats for snake food is something of a science. Not breeding in itself; that is the easy part IMO. But getting it to a point where you always have babies. So that all females are not having babies all at once and creating a glut sometimes, and then a famine for weeks ahead. Unless you euthanize, freeze and feed f/t; that would simplify timing.
I would definately start out with subadults that were never bred, and kept seperate by sex and size. You should then grow them to breeding size before mating them. Getting adults sometimes means that you're just getting someone else's washed-up breeders.
If the breeder gives you grief, I would pass and find rats from another source. Look for clear eyes, fat and sleek, but not overfat, rats. Active but not paranoid. No missing fur or scabs. I would research Myco as well and be wary of redness/discharge around the rats' eyes. From what I read, Myco is carried by all rats but gets inflamed under stress even in ideal conditions but more likely in subpar conditions. It is exhibited by sneezing and red eye discharge (looks like blood, but these are the rats' tears.)
Any more questions, please ask. I could go on and on but if there's anything specific, please do tell!

[Ginevive]

I think the point needs made, and Wolfy touched on it in her post, that breeding your own feeders is not always just about saving money on your feeding costs.

It surely is not! Factoring in time spent to clean cages.. feed mixing and preparation. Storage and living space for rats and their requirements. Bedding costs and potential disposal costs.
I do save money breeding rats, generally. But the odd month comes along that I have to buy some feeders to supplement what I produce; or I would have hungry snakes. I am going to do the math and see just what the numbers come out to.

[OhClueless1]

I really appreciate all this information. Lord knows I lurk around enough of these message boards I should eventually find what I am looking for somewhere if she has a problem with it. I am not really worried about it. I just don't want to breed pet store rats. I am inexperienced with rats and I don't know what I am looking for or at. I just thought that if I went to a breeder it would be much safer for me.

Thanks for all the input. I will continue to lurk around and glean information as I can. You all have already been a big help and that doesn't even include in this thread.

No one told me directly in any post to lie about anything. This is just about the first post I have made yet that was directly related to buying rats for breeding. I have just gotten the impression from others here and on other sites that it might not be a good idea to disclose that a person owns snakes if buying from a breeder. As this woman sells to pet shops which is how I met her.. my guess is that she isn't overly worried about it as I am sure I won't be the first to purchase some for the reasons I want them. I would rather buy directly from her than from the pet shop. I will make sure I ask to be completely honest if its a problem I will look elsewhere. I am sure I will find what I am looking for eventually. I have lots of time.

Thanks again