Herping in the local grocery store

[bonheki]

oh the other day i found a snake just like that in my uncles back yard he thought it was venimous but i really douhted that so i got him and realased him back hes was in bad shape he had a cut on his tail

[MelissaFlipski]

Wow! Melissa's been cruising the Field Herping forum!!!!

Yep, still got him, and he still bites! I had intended to release him before the weather got cold, but didn't get it done. We'll re-evaluate in the spring.

Quick little story- My son is 21 yrs old and lives with me. My computer is just inside my bedroom door. Adam came walking into my room a couple days ago grasping the snake around its middle. (Reminded me of how a three year old might hold a snake). The snake was calm, not struggling to get away, and not trying to bite him! He then allowed the snake to crawl freely on his arm, and he at least "appeared" to be as tame as the bps. EVERY time I have picked up that snake he's tried to bite me!!!

Steve

Yes, I am surfing in, trying to find a new way to get my fix. Now I can't wait until spring to go field herping myself! I revive old threads when I do searches. I hope you don't mind.

That is a great update. Funny that he bites you, but not your son. My mom said he bites you, "because you're the one who caught him." LOL

Post updated pics, please!

[jdmls88]

hes got that look to him....


the look of IM GUNNA BITE YOU!!!

[hoo-t]

Yes, I am surfing in, trying to find a new way to get my fix. Now I can't wait until spring to go field herping myself! I revive old threads when I do searches. I hope you don't mind.

That is a great update. Funny that he bites you, but not your son. My mom said he bites you, "because you're the one who caught him." LOL

Post updated pics, please!

Adam noticed today that his tub was wet. He had apparently dumped his water bowl. I took him out and asked Adam whether he wanted to hold the snake or wash the tub. He chose to hold the snake. BUT! The snake didn't bite me!!!!! Your mom is in a majority. A number of people have told me the same thing! I always respond, "I SAVED HIS LIFE!!!" which is the absolute truth. The lady that came screaming through the meat dept that day was looking for something to kill him with. Pics will have to wait for another day. I'm leaning very much towards my bed!

hes got that look to him....


the look of IM GUNNA BITE YOU!!!

He means it too!!!

Steve

[McAdry]

Well welcome to the club if it can bite,it will bite Me. Lol

[SerpentesCiconii]

I may be wrong but he looks more like an emoryi or maybe an emoryi X obsoleta integrade. It just doesn't strike me as a baby obsoleta. Again I could be wrong but that is just my opinion.

John

[hoo-t]

I may be wrong but he looks more like an emoryi or maybe an emoryi X obsoleta integrade. It just doesn't strike me as a baby obsoleta. Again I could be wrong but that is just my opinion.

John

John -

Thanks for the input! I really don't have a great deal of experience with juvenile rat snakes. According to my field guide, the Black Rat Snake (elaphe obsoleta) and Great Plains Rat Snake (elaphe guttata) are the two that are native to this area (OKC, OK). I suppose that it could be either of those. I'm not sure of the range of Emoryi, but since it was found in a grocery store, its possible that it hitched a ride from most anywhere. I just figured it came from near the store or the Coca Cola bottling plant in OKC, which would support either guttata or obsoleta. Also, blacks seem to be pretty common around here. What do you see that says emoryi to you? Keep in mind that this is a very young snake, and if it is obsoleta, it hasn't started getting its adult colors yet.

Steve

[SerpentesCiconii]

Hey Steve,
Pantherophis emoryi is the great plains rat snake. It sounds like your field guide may be from the 90s or so before all of the more recent taxonomical changes. Elaphe guttata, now known as Pantherophis guttata, only refers to the eastern corn snake which is a close relative of the great plains rat snake.

The snake just does not look like any young obsoleta I have seen. The pattern and overall brownish color makes me lean towards emoryi, though I know young obsoleta can be sort of brownish. The chief reason is pattern on the head. They are in the same Genus and it can be difficult to tell the young ones apart.

I am mainly into Asian rat snakes and Latin American racers so I am not as familiar with these snakes as others may be, but I feel I know a decent amount. But like I said earlier I could be wrong, lol.

John

[hoo-t]

Hey Steve,
Pantherophis emoryi is the great plains rat snake. It sounds like your field guide may be from the 90s or so before all of the more recent taxonomical changes. Elaphe guttata, now known as Pantherophis guttata, only refers to the eastern corn snake which is a close relative of the great plains rat snake.

The snake just does not look like any young obsoleta I have seen. The pattern and overall brownish color makes me lean towards emoryi, though I know young obsoleta can be sort of brownish. The chief reason is pattern on the head. They are in the same Genus and it can be difficult to tell the young ones apart.

I am mainly into Asian rat snakes and Latin American racers so I am not as familiar with these snakes as others may be, but I feel I know a decent amount. But like I said earlier I could be wrong, lol.

John

Thanks John! Yeah, the field guide is "A Field Guide to Reptiles of Oklahoma" c 1988 revised 1993. Kinda dated. Guess I'm gonna have to get with the times on these name changes! They kind of irritate me. The latest I heard is that they want to move all the rat snakes into pituophis! When I read that, I thought elaphe, pantherophis, pituophis - just leave it alone!!!! Oh well. I have a pretty comprehensive book on rat snakes (it'll also have them in elaphe, though). Maybe it would show scale counts or scale patterns that would tell definitively. I'll dig it out and see what I can find.

Steve

[hoo-t]

Well, here it is. From "Rat Snakes A Hobbyest's Guide to Elaphe and Kin", about Elaphe Osoleta (I know, old taxonomy)...

"All the subspecies can be distinguished by the absence of a complete "spearpoint" on the head (even in juveniles).

The pictures in the book of the Great Plains Rat Snake match exactly. Soo, its not a black rat snake, but a Great Plains Rat Snake! How 'bout that?!?!?

Thanks John!!!

Steve