20yo bp sudden loose stool

[jenaero]

Morning all, stats as follows:

temp- cool 80f warm 89-91f
heat source - red light
substrate - paper towels
diet - live small rats

My ball python has had now three defecations in a row that are less solid than normal. Usually it'll be a log or two that can easily be cleaned, but the last few have been a mushy mess that has been spread all over everything in the enclosure, up the glass, I end up having to clean everything which is a pain in the butt. My main concern is, what does this mean for her health?

No changes to feeding items, small live rat once a week, as I try to get as much in there as I can while she is not fasting (fasting generally 6-8 months of the year). Her feeding response is a lot stronger than ever before. She actually tagged me (first time ever) a couple of weeks ago when I didn't get my hand out of the way fast enough. I thought this was a positive change, but now with the loose stool I'm not so sure.

Her enclosure is always kept clean, fresh water every few days, no exposure to any other animals, no other pets in the house.

Not sure what other info to include.

Thanks

[Bogertophis]

Probably something she ate. Live rats can carry (& share) internal parasites ("worms" & various pathogens), so maybe it's time to find a better food source, & especially to get your snake eating pre-killed prey- it's kinder for the prey animals, & especially if it's frozen-thawed prey, it's much safer for your snake's health since parasites don't come out of the freezer alive to affect your pet.

Who knows what the live rats are carrying, & they can be very "generous". I'd suggest getting a fresh stool sample to your exotic reptile-specializing veterinarian to accurately treat the issue. And I agree that her recent attitude change could be related to how her G.I. tract is feeling (ie. not so good). Pain & discomfort can make a snake lash out, because they don't understand what's affecting how they feel.

[jenaero]

Thank you. She will not take anything but live. I've noticed occasionally that when I get the rat home it'll have made a mess of runny poop in the box. There's really only one source of feeders in my area. Live is truly the only option with this snake. I've tried everything possible over the span of 20 years. If it happens again I will definitely contact a vet.

[Bogertophis]

Thank you. She will not take anything but live. I've noticed occasionally that when I get the rat home it'll have made a mess of runny poop in the box. There's really only one source of feeders in my area. Live is truly the only option with this snake. I've tried everything possible over the span of 20 years. If it happens again I will definitely contact a vet.

Messy poo from the rats is a big hint- they're not healthy. And I've known many B.P.s over the years...they can be very stubborn about taking pk (pre-killed) prey, but if you work at it some, the pay-off is worth it. As snakes get older, their immune system likely declines some, & certainly their parasite load builds up with no medical interventions over the years. Parasites & pathogens are not harmless...they're a big reason (besides predators & environmental issues) that wild snakes have much shorter lifespans. 20 years sounds like a lot, but B.P.s have been known to reach 47+ years in captivity with good care. Snakes are normally stoic, but your snake is sick now- please don't ignore the obvious symptoms.

As far as getting your snake on pk prey- I've found it easier to transition first with fresh-killed. The biggest hang-up with feeding a BP is that the prey must be warm enough to pass for "alive", & then using feeding tongs, a slight jiggle often gets a strike & hold. You'll also have to be quiet & still when watching, to avoid distracting the snake (they rightly fear predators & in the wild they're at risk when distracted with eating.) BPs also prefer to eat at night.

Using feeding tongs, always move prey away from the snake, never towards it, as that's not "normal" prey behavior, & many snakes will freak & refuse prey that seems too bold. With f/t (frozen-thawed) prey, always thaw in cold water first until soft (to avoid spoilage...remember these are whole animals with a GI tract full of bacteria waiting for a hint of warmth to grow again).

Then when it's soft (thawed) throughout, immerse in very warm (not hot) water for a couple minutes to bring up the temperature. Many find using a blowdryer at this point to be super effective- blot off the water & really warm the prey to seem alive to the snake. Most snakes do switch...BPs are notoriously stubborn but so are we, eh? If your snake is taking dead prey, it's also much easier to dose them as needed (you can put the Rx in the rodent's oral cavity, or inject it into the body).

You can do this... BP's rely the most on body-heat, & also the scent of the prey. (Thawing in water will wash off some scent- but I've found that using my tongs to slightly pinch-damage the nose of dead prey will release more scent. I do not find "braining" at all necessary, & it's very gross besides.) Hey, keep us posted, ok?

[Bogertophis]

BTW, I used to raise all my own rodents (for 38 years!) for my then-house-full of snakes (85-90 snakes on average, not counting offspring & summer "houseguests"- ie. rescues, & unwanted pets).

Seriously- I had a side business supplying rodents (mice, rats, hamsters) both as feeders & as pets to local pet stores, etc. I'm down to just a few snakes now, after about 40 years keeping many & all kinds of snakes, so I finally quit breeding my own rodents. Part of the reason I did so was the cost (the rodent business supported my snakes very well), but also because far too many people don't care what they feed the rodents- whatever's cheapest & rats will eat ANYTHING.

Hey, "it's not THEIR snakes eating them!" & correctly formulated lab chow costs more. I not only fed high quality lab pellets but also supplemented with things like organic kale for vitamins. (I had pet rodents long before I got into snakes, lol.) When rodent suppliers cut corners on food, they also may not care how they're housed (all too often they're in a shed where wild rodents also have access & bring diseases). Please get a stool sample to your vet...

[jenaero]

I booked an appointment for Monday so we will see what happens in the meantime. This particular supplier keeps the rats in drawers in racks and it's not the most.... favourable.. sometimes there's a dead one in there that gets stomped. I'm really at a loss for another supplier though and I've tried every trick in the book to go to F/T. She's been strictly live for the last ten or so years.

[Homebody]

My first thought was to wait and and see. If it was a one-off, that would still be my advice, but since it's been repeated three times and you have a change in behavior. I agree it's time to see the vet.

[Bogertophis]

....and I've tried every trick in the book to go to F/T. She's been strictly live for the last ten or so years.

Another thing- how often do you feed her? And how is her body weight? (post pics if you can) As long as she's not too thin, it doesn't hurt a thing for a BP to skip meals for a while. In fact, it's the modus operandi for most snakes in the wild, & I'm sure you know that BPs are notorious at fasting. It helps to let a snake get good & hungry -not wasting away, of course, but in "hunting mode" where they eagerly follow motions nearby in hopes of a meal before you offer one. THAT's when you want to get everything right & offer a f/t meal. And this is usually best accomplished in the warmer months of the year (longer daylight, & warmer overall temps. help you succeed).

Another way I've switched snakes is to offer a live fuzzy-crawler rodent first as an appetizer, then follow that with f/t. If you feel "lucky", you can let the snake finish the appetizer, & then offer the f/t prey...some will take it, but many won't. A better alternative is to very slowly & gently (think "ninja") introduce the nose of the dead prey into the snake's still-open mouth while she's still swallowing the fuzzy. Done carefully, the snake's teeth hook into it & if you're low-key about this, she may not drop it. This is one way to teach them that this thing that tastes & feels a bit different is also edible...see? Have you ever tried this? BPs have a big mouth & you have to be subtle & sneaky- don't suddenly let go of the rodent when her teeth start to catch it, or she may drop it...just be patient & make sure it's well into being swallowed before you let go. (yes, I still have all my fingers you don't have to get THAT close)

[Bogertophis]

BTW, if you manage to sneak a f/t rodent into your snake's mouth this way, please know that it may take several times (doing the same thing) before she recognizes the f/t as food by itself, without the live appetizer first. But some DO catch on, so it's well-worth a try if you haven't already. And it helps to extend the time between meals, to make sure the snake is really hungry.

[jenaero]

Another thing- how often do you feed her? And how is her body weight? (post pics if you can) As long as she's not too thin, it doesn't hurt a thing for a BP to skip meals for a while. In fact, it's the modus operandi for most snakes in the wild, & I'm sure you know that BPs are notorious at fasting. It helps to let a snake get good & hungry -not wasting away, of course, but in "hunting mode" where they eagerly follow motions nearby in hopes of a meal before you offer one. THAT's when you want to get everything right & offer a f/t meal. And this is usually best accomplished in the warmer months of the year (longer daylight, & warmer overall temps. help you succeed).

Another way I've switched snakes is to offer a live fuzzy-crawler rodent first as an appetizer, then follow that with f/t. If you feel "lucky", you can let the snake finish the appetizer, & then offer the f/t prey...some will take it, but many won't. A better alternative is to very slowly & gently (think "ninja") introduce the nose of the dead prey into the snake's still-open mouth while she's still swallowing the fuzzy. Done carefully, the snake's teeth hook into it & if you're low-key about this, she may not drop it. This is one way to teach them that this thing that tastes & feels a bit different is also edible...see? Have you ever tried this? BPs have a big mouth & you have to be subtle & sneaky- don't suddenly let go of the rodent when her teeth start to catch it, or she may drop it...just be patient & make sure it's well into being swallowed before you let go. (yes, I still have all my fingers you don't have to get THAT close)

I feed once a week while she's eating so that she can put on enough weight to maintain the usual fast from about mid October to April or May each year. Haven't weighed since her last vet visit in 2007.. I'm not concerned as she's definitely not under weight.

thanks for the suggestion. I suppose I haven't tried everything after all. I don't currently have a platform to be able to provide a url for a pic.

Any idea how one would go about treating a snake for a parasite? Wondering what I'm in for..........