Snakes and Stones

[MichPlat]

Photo #484

Assorted stones (mostly Mid-west/West Coast USA) with a Spider/Het Piebald.

Breeders Note: Matings are going well and follicles are maturing. Several of my females have stopped eating and I'm probably about 6-8 weeks from seeing my first clutch of eggs for the 2025 season.

Fun fact: I changed all of my ball pythons water a few days ago, it took 28 gallons.

How many snakes ???!!!!’


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[Homebody]

How many snakes ???!!!!’

At once pint per snake, that would equal 224 snakes.

[Lord Sorril]

Boom! That's the sound of my mind being blown.

Hahaha, I usually change about 12 gallons/week. I recently bumped my ambient from 80 to 82F (to aid follicle development)-so I figured it was a good time to change all the water at the same time.

How many snakes ???!!!!’

I don't really count them. The number fluctuates based on the time of year. While I do have ~50 breed age females in mating right now: I'm only using a handful of males this season...if one is 'not in the mood' that will take out a chunk of my potential clutches.

At once pint per snake, that would equal 224 snakes.

That is if I only used one pint per water bowl. I have three sizes of water bowl: Small, Large, and XL. All of my adults/breeders have XL water bowls so they can completely submerge/float around while in shed/gravid: I'm definitely using more than one pint in these bowls...

Photo #485

Pastel/Lesser/Het Gravel or YB with some assorted stones.
With a quick check I can spot: Petrified Wood, Agate (various), Atlantis Wonder Jasper, Brecciated Jasper, Red Jasper, and Quartz.

[Homebody]

I don't really count them. The number fluctuates based on the time of year. While I do have ~50 breed age females in mating right now: I'm only using a handful of males this season...if one is 'not in the mood' that will take out a chunk of my potential clutches.

I had a little fun imagining what counting snakes is like for a large breeder. For us hobbyists it's simple, but I imagine large breeders have many snakes in various states of development. Do you count eggs? No, but what if they've pipped? A large breeder would also own snakes to varying degrees. Do you count snakes you've sold but you're waiting to ship? What if you've only taken a deposit? What about the snakes you have on loan for a breeding project? What about the snakes you've loaned out? Depending on the answers to these questions and many more that I can't imagine, you would arrive at widely different totals. So, I don't blame you for not knowing how many snakes you have. For a large breeder, it's not a simple question.

[Malum Argenteum]

I'm in the 'I don't count them' camp, usually. When someone asks, I'll usually tally up what I consider 'permanent residents' -- animals that are breeding stock, or those that I have no intention of selling (pets, retired breeders that are too tired to sell into the pet market or that I have some attachment to). Sometimes I count holdbacks, although I'll hold back extras for a couple years just to see how they turn out so I don't always count those.

I don't count number of animals sold, either, and only keep track of dollars for tax purposes.

I find it interesting to see how other breeders count, or whether they do at all.

[Bogertophis]

As you said, Homebody, snake tallies can vary a great deal. I only have a "few" retired snakes now, but years back, & in a much bigger house complete with my "rodent ranch" for $ support & ample sustenance, I had up to about 150 snakes for a while, when some of them had offspring (that's counting hatchlings). My more "permanent" number at the time (& for some years) was 85-90 snakes. I took in rescues: some were unwanted pets, but mostly native locals -mostly of the rattling persuasion- needing relocated or needing homes if not deemed likely to survive.

I was only half-joking when I called my house a B & B (bed & breakfast) for wayward rattlesnakes- mostly in the summer time, but I never knew- I got a call for a young speckled found in someone's woodpile one winter- I learned so much from working with him, & he was a real cutie. Believe me, 85-90 'regulars' is enough to keep one busy...especially since I had a job & other things going on too. When I'd do a snake program, I was always asked how many snakes I had, then there usually one wanting to know (with a gasp!) where I lived...seeking reassurance that I wasn't their neighbor. (I had no close neighbors & I really miss that house!)

[Lord Sorril]

I had a little fun imagining what counting snakes is like for a large breeder. For us hobbyists it's simple, but I imagine large breeders have many snakes in various states of development. Do you count eggs?.

I wouldn't consider myself a 'large' breeder. Not sure what the criteria for that would be...

I do count eggs, and I count clutches...it all good data to determine if I am 'on track' with my breeding goals or not.
I do keep an inordinate amount of holdbacks and then gradually sell them off as I watch their color shift and/or notice less desirable behavioral patterns emerge.

I'm in the 'I don't count them' camp, usually. When someone asks, I'll usually tally up what I consider 'permanent residents' -- animals that are breeding stock, or those that I have no intention of selling (pets, retired breeders that are too tired to sell into the pet market or that I have some attachment to). Sometimes I count holdbacks, although I'll hold back extras for a couple years just to see how they turn out so I don't always count those.

I don't count number of animals sold, either, and only keep track of dollars for tax purposes.

I find it interesting to see how other breeders count, or whether they do at all.

I keep some basic statistics. I've been using my Snakes and Stones photos to provide me a bit of a historical record.
Money is not really a concern for me, and dealing with large numbers of Hets/Possible Hets (which I often sell as 'Normals'): I'm fine operating consistently at a modest loss.

As you said, Homebody, snake tallies can vary a great deal. I only have a "few" retired snakes now, but years back, & in a much bigger house complete with my "rodent ranch" for $ support & ample sustenance, I had up to about 150 snakes for a while, when some of them had offspring (that's counting hatchlings). My more "permanent" number at the time (& for some years) was 85-90 snakes. I took in rescues: some were unwanted pets, but mostly native locals -mostly of the rattling persuasion- needing relocated or needing homes if not deemed likely to survive.

I was only half-joking when I called my house a B & B (bed & breakfast) for wayward rattlesnakes- mostly in the summer time, but I never knew- I got a call for a young speckled found in someone's woodpile one winter- I learned so much from working with him, & he was a real cutie. Believe me, 85-90 'regulars' is enough to keep one busy...especially since I had a job & other things going on too. When I'd do a snake program, I was always asked how many snakes I had, then there usually one wanting to know (with a gasp!) where I lived...seeking reassurance that I wasn't their neighbor. (I had no close neighbors & I really miss that house!)

Neat! When you had the rattlesnakes: What sort of enclosures did you have them in? I built all my ball python enclosures custom, but I couldn't imagine what size and design I would need for a rattlesnake...

My neighbors do not live close enough to see in my windows to my snake rooms (2nd floor of my house), however one of my neighbors mentioned she had 'noticed' unusual activity through the window (aka she was using binoculars). I just smiled and mentioned that she must have *really good* eyesight...she paused and then did not pursue that line of questioning any further.

[Lord Sorril]

Photo #486

Enchi/Het Clown
Stones from multiple sources including: Africa/Brazil/India/Madagascar/Mexico/All across the USA

[Bogertophis]

...
Neat! When you had the rattlesnakes: What sort of enclosures did you have them in? I built all my ball python enclosures custom, but I couldn't imagine what size and design I would need for a rattlesnake...

My neighbors do not live close enough to see in my windows to my snake rooms (2nd floor of my house), however one of my neighbors mentioned she had 'noticed' unusual activity through the window (aka she was using binoculars). I just smiled and mentioned that she must have *really good* eyesight...she paused and then did not pursue that line of questioning any further.

I kept my rattlesnakes in large glass tanks (aquariums, designed to hold the weight of water, are very hard to break, unlike "glass terrariums") with tops I built myself out of wood frames with wire mesh ("hardware cloth"), & on the 4 corners of the tops I installed eye bolts, & on the wood cabinets the tanks sat on was a chain with a snap bolt (like a dog leash) that effectively "locked" the top onto the cabinets underneath. Even Fish & Game was fine with my security, cleanliness & good care. (I had a home check for a "Detrimental species" permit for some non-local rattlesnakes that I ended up with.) I much prefer to work with hots from overhead, not from the front.

Never had a problem, but my methods were my methods. My rattlesnakes were throughout my house too (including my bedroom) & not locked in a snake room, but without kids around I never felt it was any kind of safety issue. Especially since I didn't work them with hooks, where they might slip off & get loose. I made "shift cages" for them- it was much less stress for all concerned, &
I could even safely bathe them with the way my design worked. When I took in some rattlesnakes previously kept by others, they usually stunk from having been kept in filthy cages, & they actually appeared to enjoy a bath, but they were also clearly surprised by it.

[Lord Sorril]

My rattlesnakes were throughout my house too (including my bedroom) & not locked in a snake room, but without kids around I never felt it was any kind of safety issue.

When I first read this: I imagined you had rattlesnakes 'throughout your house'...a rattlesnake under the fridge..a rattlesnake in the bathtub...a rattlesnake on the kitchen table...rattlesnakes everywhere just chillin' out-waiting for their next meal...