Updated Boa Sticky Brainstorming

[WrongPython]

For those who may not have seen the thread, a couple of us recently had a conversation about ways we could improve the forum to make it more useful and entertaining for everyone, given a recent slump in traffic around here. One of the ideas that came out of the conversation (that I proposed/advocated for, admittedly) was updating and cleaning some of the old sticky threads. So, I'd like to open it up to the folks in the Boa Brigade (Boa Brigadiers?) to hear what y'all would like to see in an updated boa sticky thread section, and any ideas y'all might have.

A couple ideas I have:

• An updated BC/BI/Bsigma (ah, Boa sigma has an unfortunate acronym) "how-to"/basics thread. The current "Boas FAQ" thread could do with a bit of updating given the husbandry advancements in the past decade. I think it would also be better for genus Boa to have its own "basics" thread at this point, and I think Corallus and Epicrates are getting popular enough that they've earned their own as well. Ideally, such "basics" thread would be written in a way that they give new keepers (even those that are lurking and haven't joined the forum yet) all the essentials they need at a glance.
• A couple of stickies for individual FAQs. Stuff like "why is my boa sitting in their water bowl?" or "why is my boa constantly trying to escape?" This isn't a problem here as much as it is on the BP forum, but something we may want to consider if people start repeatedly asking the same specific question.
• A sticky on evaluating boa body condition/obesity would be nice.
• A detailed "how-to" sticky on seasonally cycling boas would as well!
• A sticky on boa health issues. This could include common stuff like RIs and stuck sheds to uncommon stuff like (yes) IBD. Heck, IBD probably deserves a sticky on its own. Enough people have been asking about it as of late.

I'm willing to do any major writing, editing, and/or organization that y'all think needs to happen. I'd definitely be needing some more experienced content contributors, though!

[Spicey]

Maybe one with adult length and weight ranges for the different types of boas? I realize that snakes are individuals but it would have been nice to have a place to go when my KSB was still growing to be able to compare him with the average length/weight for his species, to make sure he was hitting his benchmarks okay.

[jmcrook]

Feeding regimen should be included somewhere in this as well. Especially given all of the horribly misguided information in that regard that’s been shared here recently it seems


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[WrongPython]

All good stuff so far. Thanks y'all!

This actually reminds me of something important -- what would everyone like to see in a "how-to"/basics/essentials sticky? I think temperature gradients, humidity, and feeding regiments should definitely be in there, but I'm curious to see what other people consider "essentials." Adult enclosure sizes? Average age of maturity? Handling guidelines? Basic boa body language?

For a Boa-specific sticky, I think we should also have a few call-outs by locality. For example: compared to common BIs, BCs require more consistent temps and are more likely to regurgitate if their feeding regiment is off, while BILs like their temps slightly cooler and are a little more prone to packing on the pounds if they're overfed.

[Nick_MD]

Good list thus far.

With "Average Age of Maturity" - I'd like to know life expectancy. We hear crazy numbers about how boas can live to be ~40, but what is the actual expectancy on average? Also, when do they become considered "seniors" and does their care need to change in any meaningful way? Is there a difference in these things by locality?

I like how you plan to call out Boa Sigma separately or indicate where it fits in the BCC or BCI grouping. Selfishly, I'd also like to know where Boa Amarali fits or gets broken out separately as well (I just got one).


Other ideas:
How to find and/or evaluate a good vet.
Probably group with "Handling", but I'm curious what others do with their boas. Is it simply handling or do they have perches, climbing apparatus, or other enrichment items/exercises for when they're out of the enclosure?

[WrongPython]

Good list thus far.

With "Average Age of Maturity" - I'd like to know life expectancy. We hear crazy numbers about how boas can live to be ~40, but what is the actual expectancy on average? Also, when do they become considered "seniors" and does their care need to change in any meaningful way? Is there a difference in these things by locality?

I like how you plan to call out Boa Sigma separately or indicate where it fits in the BCC or BCI grouping. Selfishly, I'd also like to know where Boa Amarali fits or gets broken out separately as well (I just got one).


Other ideas:
How to find and/or evaluate a good vet.
Probably group with "Handling", but I'm curious what others do with their boas. Is it simply handling or do they have perches, climbing apparatus, or other enrichment items/exercises for when they're out of the enclosure?

Good ideas!

Forgot about life expectancy -- that's one we'd definitely want in there. The general average life expectancy I see quoted is 20-30 years, with the occasional individual beyond that (ie. the boas that live to be 40-ish). It'll be interesting to see if this changes over time, though. As reptile husbandry and research advances, we're finding that more and more reptiles live longer than we thought. Boas are long-haul pets, that's for sure.

A basic overview of Boa taxonomy also sounds like a good idea. We could potentially merge it with an overview of localities and/or their average sizes. So, based on the current research, the taxonomy list would look something like:

• Boa constrictor (BC)
  
  • Venezuela*
    
    • *Rio Orinoco
    • *Tamatama
    
    
  • Suriname
    
    • Pokigron
    
    
  • Guyana
  • Brazil
    
    • North Brazil
    • Belem
    
    
  • Peru
    
    • Pucallpa
    • Iquitos
    
    
  • Boa constrictor amarali (BCA; short-tailed boa)
    
    • South Brazil
    • Bolivia
    
    
  • Boa constrictor occidentalis (BCO; Argentine boa)
  
  
• Boa imperator (BI)
  
  • Colombia
    
    • Barranquilla
    
    
  • Venezuela*
    
    • *Paraguanera locale
    
    
  • Peru*
    
    • *Boa imperator longicauda (BIL; Peruvian long-tailed boa, Tumbes boa)
    
    
  • Panama
    
    • Boa imperator sabogae (BIS; Pearl Island boa)
    
    
  • Costa Rica
  • Nicaragua
    
    • Corn Island boa
    
    
  • Honduras
    
    • Hog Island/Cayos de los Cochinos boa
    
    
  • El Salvador
  • Belize
    
    • Crawl Cay
    • Caulkers Cay
    • West Snake Cay
    • Lagoon Cay
    
    
  • Mexico*
    
    • *Cancun
    • *Tamaulipas
  
  
• Boa sigma (BS)
  
  • Sonoran desert
  • Tarahumara

I'm fairly certain there's a "how to find a good vet" thread in the "General Herp" forum. Perhaps that's something we could call out.

It sounds like "handling" and "enrichment" sections (or some merged section of them) may be a good idea. I bet new keepers would probably appreciate a list of in-enclosure enrichment ideas, such as DIY perches, hides, and the like. Handling and out-of-enclosure time do count as a for of enrichment as well, but they're not something you want to overdo, particularly if you have a nervous/shy/bashful boa or your dwelling is too cold or dry.

...now that I think of it, a boa enrichment discussion thread sounds like a good idea.

[bns]

...

For a Boa-specific sticky, I think we should also have a few call-outs by locality. For example: compared to common BIs, BCs require more consistent temps and are more likely to regurgitate if their feeding regiment is off, while BILs like their temps slightly cooler and are a little more prone to packing on the pounds if they're overfed.

Ok...first off I'm picking at this not because it is completely false (it isn't) but it is not completely true either and because it shows a small part of the difficulty in providing the specifics of care advice that many seem to want in a sticky.

A mature adult female Pokigron boa here has had a body temp of 70-73 (her choice) for several weeks now...many keepers wouldn't even allow a Suriname boa access to temps that low. This behavior and body temp is perfectly normal for a 15 year old Pokigron female and she would/will continue this choice unless I introduce a mate, feed her (which I won't during the cool season), or if by some rare chance she went into shed this time of year. It would not have been normal at age baby through 8ish to maintain that body temp for such a long period of time but she would have done so more each year after about age 3 and then longer yet after sexual maturity (sevenish). She also would not have chose that temp if she had not gained back enough weight after giving birth earlier this year. The male is choosing warmer and is busy as hell...he would eat aggressively if offered but that is not what he wants. (I have feed him when he is like this to see what happens. He would get to digestion temp and stay there for a few days then back to looking for love.)

A pair of two year olds are spending more time on the cool side but not as cool as the adults. The born this year group is choosing cooler but will warm up and hunt more often. While I provided seasons with my current 'older' Suriname boas from the time they were little, I continue to learn and I'm spending more time monitoring the yearlings. Entertaining to say the least and I don't remember my adults when they were babies acting like they were starving to death as the current babies are doing. -This behavior and choices is influenced by less food, less daylight hours and a cooler cool side. By my observations just less daylight will influence choices...combinations more so.

In all my years of doing this I have never had a boa get a respiratory infection or any other infection and no BCC has ever regurgitated in my care. That being said, I have also kept boa in constant provided summer and never had any difficulties either but there is no question in my mind which way is better for the boa. Boas will follow patterns when kept like this and it is clearly natural.

Anyway, husbandry will be slightly different for different subs (BCI/BCC) and differences within those subs from other locales. It will be different by age/sex/locale/even how long a blood line has been in captivity and how they were kept over those generations (adaptation). Boas kept differently temps/daylight hours/provided seasons/feeding and history of providing all of this will make differences in choices.

I know, folks will read this and think this guy is looking at this way too hard...its not that complicated. Its true, it is not that complicated and it is that complicated. I have disliked most every care sheet I've read, even from some 'big names' but I'm not capable of writing a care sheet myself because I wouldn't be satisfied with good. My sheet would require the reader to understand the influences which is not possible for newbs or keepers who have only been inside the box or don't give a damn. I mean that in the best way...it isn't important for everyone who wants a boa to have an understanding of what ticks behind the scenes but I can't get over it. I want to see things work and work right in harmony.

Well I wrote all this to emphasize differences in order to make someone's job more difficult and to let them know in advance that I will be judgmental and unforgiving.

Merry Christmas.

PS: Gus Retfro had about the best care sheet I ever read. It went into enough detail to get it right while touching on age/sex/seasonality-with daylight and temps/feeding/etc...just enough to allow those wanting to learn more through observation to adapt their husbandry.

[jmcrook]

Lots of great points made here, bns. By chance is the Gus Renfro care sheet you are referring to the same as this link? Gio shared this with me when I first got my Pokigron Suri boy.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080828...aisingboas.htm


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[bns]

Lots of great points made here, bns. By chance is the Gus Renfro care sheet you are referring to the same as this link? Gio shared this with me when I first got my Pokigron Suri boy.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080828...aisingboas.htm


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Yep. That info is as good a guide as I've read.