Partial feeding success tonight....

[Dianne]

Belle (lemon blast) finally ate her first f/t hopper. If this continues, she will hopefully start putting on some size and weight. She’s half the size of Piper (pied), who I purchased the same day, but is a regular little garbage disposal. The only live I have had access to are fuzzy mice, sometimes a larger than normal fuzzy, but not the size she should have been on. Rarely will she take more than one. I had tried a live rat pink, but she was having none of that...even after I scented it with mouse. I’ll take my little victory.

The ‘partial success’ is because Artemis (dragonfly) is continuing to refuse f/t. I’m considering breaking down and trying live, but I’m very concerned since she will not come out of her hide if I’m in the room. I do not like the idea of unsupervised live feeding, which her prior owner did. What do y’all think of trying a live rat pup or two to jump start her? They are way small for her size, but safe. The next size up at my local shop is small rats, which is a better size, but riskier for bites. My new banana pinstripe also refused tonight, but he’s only been here since 10/27 so I’m not too concerned as he’s probably still adjusting to the new environment.

[Sonny1318]

Hopefully they will all come along, sometimes it can be easy, sometimes tricky. But you seem to be seeing that. You can try the live rat pups, but sometimes a little patience doesn’t hurt, and double check your husbandry (no one’s perfect, I know I’m not) and soon enough they’ll all be eating. And I’m also guilty of using fresh kill to get a boy or two started myself. So if your gonna be feeding rats, why not? I’m a mouser that’s why I said it that way. Best of luck!

[Bogertophis]

Partial victories are still victories... And I see nothing wrong with a live pup to jump-start...it's nature's way.

[Dianne]

Thanks for the replies. I’ve double...and triple checked...temps and humidity, as that was my first thought as well. Ambient cage is 78-80 with the hot spot ranging 88-91 (currently set up with on/off Johnson Controls thermostat). Humidity is a little low - in the low 50’s directly under the hot spot since turning on the heat in the house. But I have large water bowls and provide humid hides when a shed is coming on. So far Artemis has shed with me once and it came off in one piece.

The only reason I’m considering giving in to live is she hasn’t eaten since I got her on 9/2/18. Not a terrible amount of time, but I’d be a lot happier if she ate. I don’t have a starting weight, but I recently purchased a scale to track her weight more precisely. Currently she is 1388 grams as of 10/29/18. I did consider fresh killed, but figure that she may be looking for movement since she was previously fed live. I’m currently heating the whole rat to be warm to human touch and that isn’t working. I’ve also tried the rat shuffle, but she’s more concerned with my big head in the door than anything I’m doing with the rat. I think I’ll take a shot with the rat pup when the next live shipment comes in next week and see how that goes. Leaving even a small adult rat unsupervised just worries me too much. I’ll report back.

Any additional ideas or comments are welcome. With the collective experience here, somebody may come up with something I haven’t thought of yet. Waiting it out is always an option, as they can go months without food, but I’m the worrying sort of parent. lol

[Bogertophis]

If she's enthused about the live pup, the next time use one as an appetizer, & have a f/t rat of a more appropriate size thawed & ready to offer the moment she
finishes the pup. Snakes are all pumped up at that point & may not think twice, just eat the 2nd item. If not, you can also try "chaining" one after the other, but
you have to be slow & sneaky so a nervous snake doesn't drop the 2nd rodent. I'd never feed live rats (with eyes open, & especially adults). That's just
asking for injuries. Fresh killed might work also, you just need to use tongs to move it a little & NOT towards the snake...you want to snake to feel like it's giving
chase or ambushing clueless prey.

[Dianne]

If she's enthused about the live pup, the next time use one as an appetizer, & have a f/t rat of a more appropriate size thawed & ready to offer the moment she
finishes the pup. Snakes are all pumped up at that point & may not think twice, just eat the 2nd item. If not, you can also try "chaining" one after the other, but
you have to be slow & sneaky so a nervous snake doesn't drop the 2nd rodent. I'd never feed live rats (with eyes open, & especially adults). That's just
asking for injuries. Fresh killed might work also, you just need to use tongs to move it a little & NOT towards the snake...you want to snake to feel like it's giving
chase or ambushing clueless prey.

When I first started keeping snakes (1991), live prey was the norm, regardless of prey size. My Bci girl was bitten in the mid/late-90’s, which is when I first heard about prekilling from the vet, and started practicing that method. Giving a strong 4’ snake shots to ward off an infection was not fun.

I’m hoping Artemis will have the “pumped” response and grab the f/t as a second item with no fuss. I’ve chained small prey items for juvenile snakes in the past, but it will be interesting to see if I can get away with that with Artemis. Of all the snakes I’ve owned over the years, I don’t know that I’ve ever had one that was as shy as she is. If I walk into the snake room and she’s roaming the cage, she’ll freeze, then head for her hide if it even looks like I’m coming her way. I’m guessing she was kept in a tub her whole life, so didn’t see anything unless the tub was opened. Now she’s in a cage with a large plexi front door and can see movement as I come into or go through the room.

[Bogertophis]

Maybe you should try taping paper over her "picture window" before you feed next time, since she's so shy. Either that or practice Tai Chi... (slow motion).
You're probably right, that she was kept in a tub previously.

Pre-killing has been the norm for me all along. I had pet rodents before I got into snakes, and don't want either one to suffer. And raising my own rodents
made more sense to me, & then having a ready supply in the freezer followed logically, especially since my "snake family" kept growing.

[dakski]

Dianne,

How old is Artemis and how much does he weigh?

I switched a 10 year old, wild caught BP, with a mild RI, that I was fostering, into eating F/T. You can probably switch Artemis as well, if that's what you want. You just have to be more patient than he is stubborn, without risking his health.

Also, not sure what the weather has been in Virginia, or if that's a major factor, but Shayna (Female 6 year old Albino Spider BP) started her winter fast 7 weeks ago. That might be a factor too.

Glad Belle ate for you!

I know you've been keeping snakes for a while, but not sure if F/T is a new thing for you. I have a step by step process (a list) of how to properly defrost a frozen rodent. I will only send if you request as I don't want to seem condescending. You've been keeping snakes as long as I have.

Keep us in the loop.

[Dianne]

Maybe you should try taping paper over her "picture window" before you feed next time, since she's so shy. Either that or practice Tai Chi... (slow motion).
You're probably right, that she was kept in a tub previously.

Pre-killing has been the norm for me all along. I had pet rodents before I got into snakes, and don't want either one to suffer. And raising my own rodents made more sense to me, & then having a ready supply in the freezer followed logically, especially since my "snake family" kept growing.

I’ve taped paper towels over the cage windows on feeding day, but not as an every day thing. I’ve been thinking about getting some of that clingy frosted-look window plastic sold for privacy since it would still let light through to a degree. Maybe leave a paper covered viewing window for spot checking? I think that will be easier than Tai Chi for me.

[Dianne]

Dianne,

How old is Artemis and how much does he weigh?

I switched a 10 year old, wild caught BP, with a mild RI, that I was fostering, into eating F/T. You can probably switch Artemis as well, if that's what you want. You just have to be more patient than he is stubborn, without risking his health.

Also, not sure what the weather has been in Virginia, or if that's a major factor, but Shayna (Female 6 year old Albino Spider BP) started her winter fast 7 weeks ago. That might be a factor too.

Glad Belle ate for you!

I know you've been keeping snakes for a while, but not sure if F/T is a new thing for you. I have a step by step process (a list) of how to properly defrost a frozen rodent. I will only send if you request as I don't want to seem condescending. You've been keeping snakes as long as I have.

Keep us in the loop.

Hi Dave,

I was told Artemis was hatched in 2015, she’s 1388 grams as of 10/29/18. Thanks to folks here, I just bought a scale to track her weight. This way I’ll have a better idea on weight loss/gain going forward. In the past I’ve always just used visual inspection of body condition.

Typical Virginia weather has been bouncing around a bit for the past month or so, but more cool days (60’s and some 50’s) than warm ones (70’s) with overnight temps lower (40’s and 50’s with several nights in the low 30’s). I’ve had the house heat on since the first cool night...I don’t like being too cool either. lol I considered she may be fasting, but my room temps have stayed pretty consistent (74-75) with the cage temps regulated. I use lights in the room to offset the seasonal changes, though that isn’t foolproof.

No worries about seeming condescending, we’re all here to share info. I’ve been feeding f/t for about 18 years. Started keeping boas in 1991, switched to prekilled somewhere around 1996-1997 after my Bci got bitten, and switched to f/t around 1999-2000. I thaw in bags in lukewarm water, switching to hot-ish tap water to bring them up to temp just prior to feeding. That said, I just learned about the hair drier trick here and tried that out on her in case the water temp wasn’t warm enough for her tastes. No luck.

I’ve had a few that were harder to switch than others, but time and patience have paid off. Most of mine will not eat anything left on the cage floor, but will readily take a slowly moving rodent held in front of them. I think my biggest concern with her stems from her being new, so I don’t know what her prior feeding habits were other than she was fed live. If this was my adult male bp, I wouldn’t think twice because he occasionally goes on fasts. As I mentioned earlier, I’m a bit of a worrier. I also haven’t handled her except when necessary for cage cleaning, so she hasn’t had the opportunity to get used to my scent...I’m just the giant moving around the room.