Improvements for the Beep

[wolftrap]

So! Four weeks into ownership of Kira the BP, I've noticed some things that definitely need to be addressed, and I need some help validating these things and my solutions, and/or coming up with better solutions.

She is a great eater; I have not weighed her, but she has taken all four meals that I've offered (the first was live because her breeder had her on live, then for the last three she effortlessly switched to F/T, all fuzzies). She is currently housed in a 10-gallon tank with a screen lid, heated with a UTH with a thermometer connected to it; the heat gradient was always hot 88 - cold 80, with a 50-70% humidity because it's rainy in Texas. Two hides, one on the cold side, one on the hot side, pretty much exactly the same size. Her water is always clean, and I keep it over the UTH so that the tank has increased humidity. She has not shed yet, nor has she even been in "blue"; I suspect it's because she shed in the days before the reptile show but that's not proven. I handle her very little; I have handled her twice since 48 hours after her last meal, for about five minutes. So, a few things...

1) The UTH's thermometer was reading 80F on the hot side yesterday. I plan on changing this by purchasing some 1/2" foam insulation board and covering the two sides and back of the tank to better hold heat, and give her a more secure environment. I might also decrease the amount of aspen substrate that I have in her tank, and change it from 2" to 1".

2) She roams very intensely. Whenever I see her, she is cruising the enclosure, climbing the sides, generally unrested. I think this is because her husbandry is off, or she's hungry. As well as changing up the enclosure and bringing it up to 88/90F on the hot side, as detailed in the first step, I'm going to graduate her to the next largest size of rat; right now she's on fuzzies, so the next would be hoppers right?

3) I am going to change her enclosure very soon, to a 38"x18"x12" tank that opens in the front, because I don't like reaching downwards for her. I plan on using coconut fiber substrate, upgrading her heating/heat gradient situation, giving her two hides, and giving her lots of plants to help her feel concealed. However, should I focus on making her happy in this tank before I give her a new one? Or do you guys think that the change would be a welcome one?

thanks in advance for your help!

[sufficio]

Just to be clear, when you say the UTH is connected to a thermometer, do you mean thermostat? And how are you measuring your heat and humidity?

[wolftrap]

No, just thermometer at the moment. I need to get the Jump Start thermostat to connect, but until then I check the thermometer/hygrometer very regularly to watch for heat spikes. The thermometer/hygrometer is placed on the hot side.

Just to be clear, when you say the UTH is connected to a thermometer, do you mean thermostat? And how are you measuring your heat and humidity?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Mr. Misha]

First of all, you're running a huge risk of burning your snake whether you think you're checking your temps or not. An unregulated UTH is just that, unregulated. Is the UTH the only source of heat? If it's not, turn it off ASAP. There's no benefit to it being unregulated and you're just taking a big risk hurting your BP. If you keep your ambient temps at 78-82, you're going to be fine.

If you're going to change out your enclosure, I'd recommend not wasting money on the old one. Make the investment once and keep a BP is going to be a breeze. I'll be honest, besides changing out their water and feeding them, I sometimes don't touch their enclosures for weeks because everything is set through Herpstat thermostats and PVC enclosures hold great humidity. I think you'll be happy with the coconut husk. That stuff is awesome!

[Craiga 01453]

Alright, let's see...here's what stuck out to me. I'm just going in chronological order following your thread so I can reference it and reply...


- If you're relying on a thermometer and not using a temp gun you're not getting surface temps, so that unregulated UTH could be a LOT hotter on the surface. If 88 was ambient, that surface temp was likely well over 100.

- UNTIL YOU GET A THERMOSTAT, UNPLUG THE UTH.

- UTHs are not designed to raise ambient temps. They are designed solely to provide a hotspot.

- If your ambient temps in the room where your snake is kept aren't in the mid 80s constantly, you'll need an additional heat source, ALSO REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT.
.....Especially once you upgrade to a larger enclosure

- regarding the shed, it could very well be because she shed right before you got her. Shed is related to growth, not time, she'll shed when she's ready.

- I love the idea of the foam board insulation, but it'll only help if you're adding an additional heat source. Again, a UTH is not going to raise ambient temps.
If your room ambient temps are what you're relying on, the foam board won't do anything at all.

- you're right. If she's constantly roaming, something is off somewhere. You mentioned that she's on rat fuzzies. That should be fine, assuming she's still 200 grams or under. But since you don't know the weight, I'm guessing here. (Get yourself a scale, very valuable tool).
...do the rats leave a noticeable lump in the snakes stomach after it is eaten?
...are the rats about the same size around as the snake at her widest point?
...if yes, it's husbandry related

- rat pups are the next size up. Hoppers are mice...so now I've got to ask...are you 100% positive she's eat rat fuzzies and not fuzzy mice??? Because that would change a LOT (roaming, not shedding yet, etc...)

- switching to coco husk is a great idea. Aspen sucks for BPs. It doesn't hold the humidity well, it's messy, it doesn't help with odor. It just sucks all around.

- I wouldn't rush to get her moved to that 3ft. enclosure. I'd wait until she basically outgrows her current one.


So, in conclusion: UTHs are for hot spots only, UNPLUG IT til you get a t-stat, are you SURE she's eating fuzzy RATS and not MICE??? And get yourself a t-stat, scale and a temp gun, like yesterday...

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

[wolftrap]

Alright, let's see...here's what stuck out to me. I'm just going in chronological order following your thread so I can reference it and reply...


- If you're relying on a thermometer and not using a temp gun you're not getting surface temps, so that unregulated UTH could be a LOT hotter on the surface. If 88 was ambient, that surface temp was likely well over 100.

- UNTIL YOU GET A THERMOSTAT, UNPLUG THE UTH.

- UTHs are not designed to raise ambient temps. They are designed solely to provide a hotspot.

- If your ambient temps in the room where your snake is kept aren't in the mid 80s constantly, you'll need an additional heat source, ALSO REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT.
.....Especially once you upgrade to a larger enclosure

- regarding the shed, it could very well be because she shed right before you got her. Shed is related to growth, not time, she'll shed when she's ready.

- I love the idea of the foam board insulation, but it'll only help if you're adding an additional heat source. Again, a UTH is not going to raise ambient temps.
If your room ambient temps are what you're relying on, the foam board won't do anything at all.

- you're right. If she's constantly roaming, something is off somewhere. You mentioned that she's on rat fuzzies. That should be fine, assuming she's still 200 grams or under. But since you don't know the weight, I'm guessing here. (Get yourself a scale, very valuable tool).
...do the rats leave a noticeable lump in the snakes stomach after it is eaten?
...are the rats about the same size around as the snake at her widest point?
...if yes, it's husbandry related

- rat pups are the next size up. Hoppers are mice...so now I've got to ask...are you 100% positive she's eat rat fuzzies and not fuzzy mice??? Because that would change a LOT (roaming, not shedding yet, etc...)

- switching to coco husk is a great idea. Aspen sucks for BPs. It doesn't hold the humidity well, it's messy, it doesn't help with odor. It just sucks all around.

- I wouldn't rush to get her moved to that 3ft. enclosure. I'd wait until she basically outgrows her current one.


So, in conclusion: UTHs are for hot spots only, UNPLUG IT til you get a t-stat, are you SURE she's eating fuzzy RATS and not MICE??? And get yourself a t-stat, scale and a temp gun, like yesterday...

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Alrighty, so today I'll grab a thermoSTAT, an additional heat source, and some coconut substrate... I'll also grab a scale so I can better track her growth.

I'm pretty positive that I grabbed rat fuzzies and not mice - when I brought her home, I bought fuzzies from our local feed store that were the size of her largest circumference. It was a visible bump when she was swallowing, but not when it was in her stomach. I'll try getting some F/T pups along with everything else.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Bogertophis]

...
- If you're relying on a thermometer and not using a temp gun you're not getting surface temps, so that unregulated UTH could be a LOT hotter on the surface. If 88 was ambient, that surface temp was likely well over 100....

Well, you're making an assumption that the thermometer is reading ambient temperatures, & you are probably right, but it IS possible to read surface temperatures
with a thermometer...some of us that have been around a while have done so for years, by laying a thermometer right over the UTH & then waiting a while for the
accurate reading. I honestly do NOT like temp. guns...I bought a decent one & used it for a while, but it gave flaky readings that had to be taken multiple times...so
which one is the REAL one, if you know what I mean? Anyway, I sold my temp. gun & don't miss it one bit...I have a box of mercury thermometers that work just fine.

Note, I'm not trying to change anyone's methods here, just giving a caution about jumping to the wrong conclusions. You ARE correct that UTH must be regulated...

[Craiga 01453]

Well, you're making an assumption that the thermometer is reading ambient temperatures, & you are probably right, but it IS possible to read surface temperatures
with a thermometer...some of us that have been around a while have done so for years, by laying a thermometer right over the UTH & then waiting a while for the
accurate reading. I honestly do NOT like temp. guns...I bought a decent one & used it for a while, but it gave flaky readings that had to be taken multiple times...so
which one is the REAL one, if you know what I mean? Anyway, I sold my temp. gun & don't miss it one bit...I have a box of mercury thermometers that work just fine.

Note, I'm not trying to change anyone's methods here, just giving a caution about jumping to the wrong conclusions. You ARE correct that UTH must be regulated...

True, that was an assumption. I guess I assumed the probe, or the thermometer itself weren't sitting on the UTH. Based on the water bowl being there, and presumably a hide, there's not much more room in a 10 gallon.
But, again, assumotion....

[wolftrap]

Alright, so Petsmart didn't have any thermostats, so I'll be ordering one online today, probably the Jump Start. I'm going to try to offer her two of the rat fuzzies tomorrow instead of one, just to rule out that her wandering isnt because she's hungry.

I also got a much better thermometer/hygrometer that has probes to get better readings, so I'll use that until i get my thermostat.

Question: I did get a dome light fixture and a ceramic heat emitter, so could I unplug the UTH and just use the light? I understood that BPs needed belly heat for digestion and they're not basking snakes, but since the UTH is so unreliable, I wonder if the CHE is the better option for now.

I did clean a bit of waste out of her cage today, and she tagged me for the first time - I'm guessing because I was looking at F/T rats at the store and I didn't wash my hands before picking her up, sorry Kira darling! The fear of being bitten is so much worse than the actual bite, though obviously I'll avoid it in the future so her teeth don't get damaged!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[pretends2bnormal]

Congrats on joining the bite club! I'll bet you've had paper cuts worse than that.

As long as temps in the room are a decent ambient temperature (78-82), I would say to just wait on heat and feeding until your thermostat gets in.
A CHE will also require a thermostat or lamp dimmer to be installed so as not to be too hot. (Yes, even the lower watt bulbs can cause extremely high temperatures) Even if you get a dimmer, you would need to relocate her out of the cage for an hour or two for your dialing in the dimmer. Overall, quite a bit of work when your true solution should be here soon (presuming you ordered on Amazon, only a few days at most).

Until your heat is properly regulated, it should not be left on to keep her safe from burns, but you run an even higher risk of regurgitation if you feed her without heat.
Definitely do not feed until you have your thermostat and gave it a couple hours to bring the surface temperatures up to a good temperature. Even if she is needing a bit bigger meal size, the extra couple days to get your thermostat will not hurt her unless she is practically emaciated (and even still, feeding before you have the right heat in that condition would be worse than waiting).

If you haven't gotten one and want truly reliable temperature measuring for surfaces like your hot spot, we all recommend temp guns like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0083...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(There are similar ones for $10 at most walmarts as well)

They're inexpensive and you can point and click anywhere you need to measure. Note that if you do it from a distance it will read an average of a fairly large area due to the physics behind how they work, so try to point at spots <12" away for more accuracy. (Also, do not aim through glass, plastic, or mesh. Even if the laser pointer goes through it will be measuring the mesh or glass instead)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk