Swallowing rat while rat is alive..

[John1982]

It is not illegal to feed live prey in the UK..

[redshepherd]

It is not illegal to feed live prey in the UK..

Omg really, why does everyone from the UK say it is then? LOL

[Valyrian]

It is not illegal to feed live prey in the UK..

True. It's more complicated than that but for ease of discussion I said it was illegal.

Basically, you can feed live if it's a last resort and under the direction of a veterinarian. However, you cannot sell animals listed as being fed on live prey.

So for example, you cannot legally feed live just because you enjoy it.

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[redshepherd]

True. It's more complicated than that but for ease of discussion I said it was illegal.

Basically, you can feed live if it's a last resort and under the direction of a veterinarian. However, you cannot sell animals listed as being fed on live prey.

So for example, you cannot legally feed live just because you enjoy it.

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"Ease of discussion", you mean using the word "legal" to push the OP to feed f/t. Feeding as a last resort is not even remotely illegal... lol

[Valyrian]

"Ease of discussion", you mean using the word "legal" to push the OP to feed f/t. Feeding as a last resort is not even remotely illegal... lol

I think most reasonable people would conclude that feeding frozen thawed is more responsible than feeding live for a myriad of reasons that have been discussed in the reptile community ad nauseum.

If you disagree then that's fair enough as that's your right, just as it's my right to put forth my opinion.

And it is illegal if not recommended by a medical professional.

In just the same way that taking Opiods in the UK is illegal unless prescribed by a medical professional.

Not sure how that's difficult to understand but that comparison should help.

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[John1982]

I'm sure some of the royals sold in pet shops in the UK were at least started on live prey. From my limited understanding, the whole "it's illegal" standpoint folks take stems from their interpretation of the animal welfare act. Yes, protecting the animal from unnecessary pain and suffering is one of the "needs" listed under the act. Equally listed is the need for a suitable diet. If the snake doesn't feed on f/t, how long do you wait before you're breaking the law by withholding food that it would gladly accept? My personal interpretation(if I were living in the UK) would be that as soon as the animal started to look noticeably thinner, it would be time for live or assist. But then, can you even assist feed in the UK if you haven't attempted live food first? It seems that assisting would be causing unnecessary "suffering", again open to interpretation, if you hadn't at least attempted live first.. Folks need to remember that this law wasn't set to only protect the "prey", the "predator" is also subject. It's one big grey area and, to my knowledge, nobody has been successfully prosecuted for feeding live prey.

(2)For the purposes of this Act, an animal's needs shall be taken to include—
(a)its need for a suitable environment,
(b)its need for a suitable diet,
(c)its need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns,
(d)any need it has to be housed with, or apart from, other animals, and
(e)its need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents

[Valyrian]

I'm sure some of the royals sold in pet shops in the UK were at least started on live prey. From my limited understanding, the whole "it's illegal" standpoint folks take stems from their interpretation of the animal welfare act. Yes, protecting the animal from unnecessary pain and suffering is one of the "needs" listed under the act. Equally listed is the need for a suitable diet. If the snake doesn't feed on f/t, how long do you wait before you're breaking the law by withholding food that it would gladly accept? My personal interpretation(if I were living in the UK) would be that as soon as the animal started to look noticeably thinner, it would be time for live or assist. But then, can you even assist feed in the UK if you haven't attempted live food first? It seems that assisting would be causing unnecessary "suffering", again open to interpretation, if you hadn't at least attempted live first.. Folks need to remember that this law wasn't set to only protect the "prey", the "predator" is also subject. It's one big grey area and, to my knowledge, nobody has been successfully prosecuted for feeding live prey.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents

That's a good link, cheers. I'm out anyway, this redshepherd person is getting too much in their feelings

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[redshepherd]

That's a good link, cheers. I'm out anyway, this redshepherd person is getting too much in their feelings

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What? I don't even feed live to my current snakes LOL. Just trying to clarify everything.

[Bogertophis]

(2)For the purposes of this Act, an animal's needs shall be taken to include—
(a)its need for a suitable environment,
(b)its need for a suitable diet,
(c)its need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns,
(d)any need it has to be housed with, or apart from, other animals, and
(e)its need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents

I think all of this is very well-intended but completely subject to interpretation: wouldn't "(c)...to exhibit normal behaviour patterns" include feeding as it would
in nature? ie. live? And the "(e) need to be protected from...suffering...& disease" would surely preclude starving your snake that won't eat f/t?

As I've said many times, I'm ALL FOR feeding pre-killed (fresh or f/t) for safety & humane considerations, but another difference is that here in the U.S. we have
many more species of native snakes. For someone like me, who used to be involved with rescue/relocation of native snakes (most often rattlesnakes), well you just
can't feed them dead food like "room service" and then send them back outside. A meal (or several) at my house meant they had the strength (energy) to have a
better chance of survival when relocated; snakes in the desert are typically struggling with survival to begin with, so food & hydration goes a long way to help
them stay alive. You'd better believe I fed them live, with no regrets. But any that weren't healthy enough to go outside, or that had to stay captive for other reasons
(too long in captivity-exposure to exotics) all got switched to dead prey, & pretty easily.

I know there are differences of perspective in this area of keeping snakes...I think this is actually a good area for discussion. You can find cruel people everywhere,
those who take a perverse pleasure in watching a snake kill a rodent, but happily that's not most of us. I think most of us just want the best for our animals.

[John1982]

I think all of this is very well-intended but completely subject to interpretation: wouldn't "(c)...to exhibit normal behaviour patterns" include feeding as it would
in nature? ie. live? And the "(e) need to be protected from...suffering...& disease" would surely preclude starving your snake that won't eat f/t

Exactly, why I mentioned that nobody has been successfully prosecuted for breaking the law by feeding live. Until that happens, and a precedent is set, interpretation is king - within reason.