So sad..

[Maybeka]

I found out last night that our neighbor has a Ball Python. I knew he had a snake but didn't know what kind, never saw it.
His enclosure is a 40 gallon tank with some substrate on the bottom a hide and a water bowl. No heat lamp, no nothing else.

He says he makes sure the house doesn't get below 68 and that she's been fine like that for 15 YRS !!! He says she's mostly
mean and is constantly striking. Only every now and then can he take her out if he waits til she's up and in a "good mood" he says.

Ya know, my son went over and above (by listening to all the GREAT information here and all the research he did) to make his little once comfortable and safe, and yet the neighbor has one that has absolutely NOTHING and has been living like that for 15 yrs.

I feel bad for her now.

[Skyrivers]

I found out last night that our neighbor has a Ball Python. I knew he had a snake but didn't know what kind, never saw it.
His enclosure is a 40 gallon tank with some substrate on the bottom a hide and a water bowl. No heat lamp, no nothing else.

He says he makes sure the house doesn't get below 68 and that she's been fine like that for 15 YRS !!! He says she's mostly
mean and is constantly striking. Only every now and then can he take her out if he waits til she's up and in a "good mood" he says.

Ya know, my son went over and above (by listening to all the GREAT information here and all the research he did) to make his little once comfortable and safe, and yet the neighbor has one that has absolutely NOTHING and has been living like that for 15 yrs.

I feel bad for her now.

Have you tried to hand them a care sheet that suggest proper setup for the BP? If you can afford to, I would gift a UTH and thermostat to the BP and offer with the care sheet along with another hide. Suggest that that might make her a little less grumpy and healthier.

Some people simply don't care or don't know.

I have to admit years ago before education is what it is today, I kept corn and kings in cages that only had a over the tank heat lamp and was unregulated. I made changes once I got educated. In all honesty they were healthy despite my foolishness.

I now make sure that they have all their needs met! I am older and wiser also.

[hilabeans]

Living isn't necessarily thriving. People can live in deplorable conditions too. It's a shame not all pet owners bend over backwards to provide the best environment possible for their companion animals, but it happens a lot.

[zina10]

Only so much you can do...

People always say "Well, I've always done it that way, and it lived like that for xx years". As if that makes it ok. That snake survives DESPITE the terrible husbandry. Certainly not because of it.

You can make a dog live in a cage all his life, out in the cold or heat, and as long as you feed it, it will probably "live". Doesn't mean that this is the way they should live or do well. It just survives.

I have a friend that tells the story of her son's BP a lot. They kept it in a HUGE screen enclosure (that was before we became friends). They go on and on saying how that snake LOVED that giant screen enclosure and loved to climb the tree in there.

It climbed because it was freezing and on top was a light bulb.

They also say what a bond their son had with the snake because it always let him pick off the flakes of skin when it shed. Because of course it didn't shed in one piece...

She then says how she doesn't like snakes but did feel bad when she accidentally cooked it by placing it in the sun in a small glass tank while cleaning house.

People will do as they please and if the animal survives the neglect, they will tell themselves they do great. Some people are willing to learn, others are not.

[Maybeka]

Have you tried to hand them a care sheet that suggest proper setup for the BP? If you can afford to, I would gift a UTH and thermostat to the BP and offer with the care sheet along with another hide. Suggest that that might make her a little less grumpy and healthier.

Some people simply don't care or don't know.

I have to admit years ago before education is what it is today, I kept corn and kings in cages that only had a over the tank heat lamp and was unregulated. I made changes once I got educated. In all honesty they were healthy despite my foolishness.

I now make sure that they have all their needs met! I am older and wiser also.

EXCELLENT ideas! I can do that !

My son has a heat lamp from his old bearded dragon and another one that he got that came with the enclosure he purchased. I may just give him a care sheet and one of the heat lamps, then maybe buy him an UTH and a thermostat.

Wish me luck, we'll see what he says this weekend.

[cchardwick]

For a long time I've always repeated what everyone else says about husbandry (or any other topic without verifying the facts). How could it be wrong since everyone keeps repeating it over and over and all the care sheets state the same thing?

I used to work in a Chemistry lab and we had many of the same issues. One was with our Ion Chromatography standards. We always kept them in the refrigerator, in fact our SOP called it out, it must be stored in the fridge at all times. I didn't think this was right since it has a chance of precipitating out the substance of interest at cooler temps but I couldn't convince anyone to change the storage conditions. Finally I called the manufacturer. They stored it at room temp and in fact had very specific (warm) temperature guidelines in place, even had expensive backup generators in case the power goes out to keep them warm.

I think it's similar with the care of ball pythons. I especially think the humidity requirement is way off, I think a higher humidity promotes respiratory infections in ball pythons, I see a lot of people struggle with RI. Some old time breeders like Brian Gundy will tell you he keeps all his ball pythons dry, doesn't humidify or add wet substrate to prevent RI and has been doing so for many years and having great success at breeding them. Personally I think we should keep them dry until just prior to shed and then bump up the humidity temporarily.

As for temperatures you really have to look at the temp of a termite mound since this is where they originate (in holes under termite mounds). I did a little digging around and found that the temperatures vary wildly, from 59F all the way to 89F. Here's a link below, they measured temps all around the mound for a whole year, an interesting study.

http://www.esf.edu/efb/turner/termit...eNestTemp.html

I think as a general rule of thumb our care sheet is a good guideline for beginners, but ball pythons are used to surviving and thriving in the wild with huge temperature fluctuations, the rules aren't has hard and fast as we think.

I know this can be a sensitive topic because you can't convince some people to have an open mind LOL.

[Godzilla78]

For a long time I've always repeated what everyone else says about husbandry (or any other topic without verifying the facts). How could it be wrong since everyone keeps repeating it over and over and all the care sheets state the same thing?

I used to work in a Chemistry lab and we had many of the same issues. One was with our Ion Chromatography standards. We always kept them in the refrigerator, in fact our SOP called it out, it must be stored in the fridge at all times. I didn't think this was right since it has a chance of precipitating out the substance of interest at cooler temps but I couldn't convince anyone to change the storage conditions. Finally I called the manufacturer. They stored it at room temp and in fact had very specific (warm) temperature guidelines in place, even had expensive backup generators in case the power goes out to keep them warm.

I think it's similar with the care of ball pythons. I especially think the humidity requirement is way off, I think a higher humidity promotes respiratory infections in ball pythons, I see a lot of people struggle with RI. Some old time breeders like Brian Gundy will tell you he keeps all his ball pythons dry, doesn't humidify or add wet substrate to prevent RI and has been doing so for many years and having great success at breeding them. Personally I think we should keep them dry until just prior to shed and then bump up the humidity temporarily.

As for temperatures you really have to look at the temp of a termite mound since this is where they originate (in holes under termite mounds). I did a little digging around and found that the temperatures vary wildly, from 59F all the way to 89F. Here's a link below, they measured temps all around the mound for a whole year, an interesting study.

http://www.esf.edu/efb/turner/termit...eNestTemp.html

I think as a general rule of thumb our care sheet is a good guideline for beginners, but ball pythons are used to surviving and thriving in the wild with huge temperature fluctuations, the rules aren't has hard and fast as we think.

I know this can be a sensitive topic because you can't convince some people to have an open mind LOL.

I follow your train of thought here. I don’t however see your link between higher humidity and RIs? I think it is quite the opposite. The flue season is in winter because the winter is dry, and high humidity has been proven to kill the flu virus.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/p...t-flu-09-02-10

Obviously this study is on human flu strains, and not reptiles, but i think a dried out ball python would be nore susceptible to respiratory infections, than a properly hydrated snake, in a humid environment. termite mounds in africa are not arid!
Also, Brian Gundy lives in a naturally humid environment. He recommends people not even worry about humidity, so he obviously never tried to keep snakes in a cold environment, with the heat drying out the house 24/7!!!
His advice is narrow, as it doesn’t apply to most if the world, except humid locales.
He never even mentions what humidity his snake tubs are... ridiculous to make assumptions without measurements, or to assume everyone has the same humidity levels as he does.

I run a 6 gallon humidifier to keep the room at 50% year round, and use coco fiber to boost the tubs to about 65%. Snakes do not dry out ever.
I just make sure the tubs are well ventilated, as stagnant air is not healthy at all.
I have heard that low temps are the number one reason for respiratory infections in snakes, but i have also seen people keep a ball python in a cold basement with nothing but a heat lamp for 20 years!
They are certainly hardy creatures, as long as they are not kept in horrid conditions.

[zina10]

I agree with Godzilla.

You can't simply say, don't worry about humidity until shed. That is irresponsible. Everyone has different humidity in their house. Different substrate.

"I" don't worry about it much, that's true. My house never gets very dry. Only rarely when we had a extreme cold snap and the heater ran nonstop. Or when the AC runs to much. Aside from that, I mist once the week lightly, or even less. Only misting heavily during shed.

That did not work so well when the humidity in my house got very low. It makes a dramatic difference.

Yes, Ball Pythons spend most of their time in termite mounds or rodent burrows. The humidity in a burrow is far higher then it is in the open air.

And yes, the temps probably vary widely. Termite mounds are tall and stand in the sun. Depending on where you would be in there, it could be hot, warm, or cool. The difference is, the Ball Python can find the right spot. The spot that works with either being full of food and digestion on "high" or in a shed and seeking out more humid areas, or building follicles and searching out the cooler spots.

Unless you have a room sized enclosures with a few termite mounds and under ground burrows you cannot give them this wide of a choice. Even in a large tank you could hardly provide a safe spectrum if part of the cage's temperature is in the 50's.

Its true, nothing is written in stone. People learn all the time and animals are individuals. But others have learned from mistakes and we have learned from them. Over the years it becomes clear what seems to work best, going by experience and keeping their natural needs and habitat in mind. Combine that with common sense and its clear that nowadays husbandry recommendation are sound and shouldn't be strayed from.

Especially when you are trying to teach beginners or the people that never bothered to do the research themselves.