Need Mite Help with Rack Please

[BC's Balls]

I am sure you guys get this mite question a lot but in searching the forum I could not find a thread with my exact situation. I am an experienced keeper but I have been out of it for about 15 years and recently jumped in with both feet. I am somewhat embarrassed to ask this question but the only dumb question is the one not asked of those with more recent experience. My son is 13 and he has had 1.0 normal for about 6 years now and with both our increased level of interest we decided to build a collection for breeding that are various sizes so we are set for a couple years till our juveniles are ready and so on.....

My issue is other than our 1.0 Normal, we will be getting (or have gotten) a total of 17 additional animals ranging from juvenile 17's to 14s that are just at breeder size. I do not have a separate area for quarantine and since all are new except our 1.0 Normal non-breeder its basically all a quarantine area. I will number my questions for ease of answering because I want to nip the small mite appearance quickly and effectively but in such a way that is not harmful for my animals. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's when I was breeding Colubrids we used no pest strips inm a deli cup but I had never heard of some of the more recent advanced treatments out there and I was not using racks with tubs then either but rather better ventilated enclosures.

I noticed my 300g 1.0 Pinstripe Yellowbelly and my 280g 0.1 Pastel Vanilla both soaking last night after feeding and I picked them up and let them crawl through a paper towel and sure enough the irritating crawlys are there but sparse. I have never treated in a rack system and want to do it effectively, quickly but most importantly safely. Right now there are not many mites and the only snakes soaking or with any mites visible when rubbed down with a paper towel are two juveniles but I have to assume all are affected but its an early catch.

Here is my plan let me know if this is an acceptable method and if not, why and what would you recommend?

1. Currently my snakes are housed in a RBI 6 rack CB70 tubs with dividers in the top two tubs for my juveniles. I use coconut husk as substrate. I tried Paper Towels and Newspaper and they just ball it up in the middle and end up laying on the plastic so after two weeks of close screening for mites I decided to go ahead and put in a small layer of CocoHusk. I have 10 more animals coming in two weeks when my two RBI VE 6 Racks come in that hold various size tubs depending on the size needed and I want to get this under control and establish a best practice for when the new animals arrive. I will be moving the juveniles to smaller tubs in the new racks when they come in and some of the larger animals will go in the CB 70 Tubs.

2. I plan to (Based on a video by LLL Reptiles which was the best one I could find) leave the coconut husk in during treatment since I will be using the PAM (Rack and Enclosure) and Reptile Spray (on the animals which I did when they all arrived with 0 mites in the residual water). I did not pre-treat the tubs with PAM. With PAM is removing the cocohusk necessary? Based on the video it appears it is not but I have read mixed opinions. I really do not want to go to paper towels and have them just balled up in the middle and my animals laying on the bare plastic. If absolutely necessary newspaper might be better just wondering if is is necessary or just the way some choose to do it. My main concern is danger from the animals ingesting treated substrate with their feedings but I am not sure if this is dangerous or not since the PAM is supposedly, when dry, completely harmless even if it gets wet?

I will follow all prescribed instructions and air out the tubs and room until there is no residual smell. I have an attic fan that, with the window open, will suck all the air out of that room and replace it with fresh air about 3 times a minute so airing out is not a concern. I plan to repeat this course in 30 days.

3. I have two new racks being delivered in about a week and 10 more animals coming in about two weeks once the rack is stable. Would you pre-treat the new substrate, new racks and new tubs with PAM for new arrivals and then do that again in 30 days as well since I know right now there are mites?

4. What is the deal with the "predatory" mites? Do they work? Everything I have read says they need moist substrate to survive which would kick my 55-60% humidity way up and I don't want to waste my time if they are ineffective. I HATE to use pesticide (which is what permethrin is) but based on everything I have read it seems to be the standard treatment now.

I appreciate the help. I have searched the forum and get mixed answers and am curious how you would handle the issue given my situation of not having a separate quarantine area (all the animals except my normal are new anyway so I did not see this as an issue and is one reason we got them all at once), having more new animals and racks coming in shortly and having what I would consider a very small startup of an infestation.

Based on the info above, what would you do?

Thanks again!

[Lord Sorril]

Did I read that correctly:
You once kept snakes, bred Colubrids, and stopped for 15 years?
Now you are going from 1 to 18 BPs and you are buying them online from different sources and having issues with mites while still adding to your breeding collection?

[BC's Balls]

Did I read that correctly:
You once kept snakes, bred Colubrids, and stopped for 15 years?
Now you are going from 1 to 18 BPs and you are buying them online from different sources and having issues with mites while still adding to your breeding collection?

I owned a Reptile Shop in the late 90s and early 80s and we didn't breed Ball Pythons but we brought in and sold plenty of pythons, boas and were pretty big breeders of colubrids. And no I didn't just go online and buy from anyone I did a ton of research on each breeder before buying. I only dealt with 3 breeders online and the rest came from local breeders. I only discovered the mites last night and I have more snakes coming from two breeders in two weeks.

To say I "got out of it" was the wrong way to say it as I have always had snakes I just recently got into Ball Pythons. When I got out of the "business" Albino's were new and Bob Clark had just bought the first one. The genetics now are amazing.

I am just looking for advice on mite eradication. I understand quarantine well but when everything is being added within the same couple months I see my room as its own quarantine if that makes sense. Whether they are in a rack in this room or another room they are all new and all kept in a rack together.

[BC's Balls]

In all my years of keeping them this is the first time I have dealt with mites in a rack system which is why I posted my questions. I just want to do it right and appreciate any help and insight.

[MD_Pythons]

You really done goofed it by not quarantining your new acquisitions. You can't put your,new snakes in your basement or anything? Anyways, I would keep them on paper towels so you can,monitor the mites more closely. Once you get that taken care of you can go back to your loose substrate.

[BC's Balls]

You really done goofed it by not quarantining your new acquisitions. You can't put your,new snakes in your basement or anything? Anyways, I would keep them on paper towels so you can,monitor the mites more closely. Once you get that taken care of you can go back to your loose substrate.

Thank you I realized I might take some heat because I did not use what some would consider proper quarantine procedures. My only justification to myself was the fact that all my snakes are new so whether they are in a separate room in a rack or in my snake room with a rack I couldn't see the difference. I sold all my Colubrids to a local breeder to free up the room and cleaned and sanitized everything and was over a month before the first animal was introduced.

The Male Normal that we had before all the new aquisitions is in another room he stays in my sons bedroom in a 55gal tank, always has even when I had the Colubrids in my snake room.

Thanks for the advice. I will put them on paper (Tried Paper Towels and they wad them up but I suspect Newspaper would be just as good and is more rigid to keep them from wadding it up and ending up on the bare plastic. Racks are new to me.

[SDA]

Never leave substrate in once you determine mites. You must clear everything out and either sanitize it or toss it. Treat the tubs and treat the snakes for no less than a month. The best thing is to have paper towels to easily change substrate and monitor for new mites.

The mite lifecycle needs to be killed which means at least a month of treating and cleaning on a consistent basis. Provent a mite alone is not sufficient, get nature's chemistry reptile spray as well to treat the actual snake. That one-two punch is the best way.

[tttaylorrr]

i personally have never dealt with mites but from everything ive read and reading your situation, it sounds like you're in for 30 days of heck.

paper towels are to monitor the mite outbreak so you can see what you're dealing with. substrate will just complicate the process.

you must ensure adults, babies and eggs are dead, and as SDA mentioned above, the lifecycle is about 30 days, which means you're not just treating what you see, to need to kill what you don't see as well.

good luck. this will be a tough battle, friend.

QUARANTINE. ALWAYS. QUARANTINE.

[BC's Balls]

Never leave substrate in once you determine mites. You must clear everything out and either sanitize it or toss it. Treat the tubs and treat the snakes for no less than a month. The best thing is to have paper towels to easily change substrate and monitor for new mites.

The mite lifecycle needs to be killed which means at least a month of treating and cleaning on a consistent basis. Provent a mite alone is not sufficient, get nature's chemistry reptile spray as well to treat the actual snake. That one-two punch is the best way.

Thank you!

Based on a conversation with my main breeder I deal with my plan is to:

1. Switch to Newspaper or ReptiZorb liners and pre-treat replacement substrate before changing out.
2. Treat each tub, liner and the entire rack with PAM as directed
3. Treat each animal with Reptile Spray before replacing them in their tubs and replace the water after 24 hours
4. Based on my breeders advice put a 1" square of No Pest Strip in a deli cup and put it in the rack beside each tub for a week, then in the freezer a week, then back in the rack a week
5. Retreat with PAM and Reptile Spray after 30 days.

He says this is how he has done it but has been a year since he has had to do it. Any contradictions to this method?

[BC's Balls]

i personally have never dealt with mites but from everything ive read and reading your situation, it sounds like you're in for 30 days of heck.

paper towels are to monitor the more outbreak so you can see what you're dealing with. substrate will just complicate the process.

you must ensure adults, babies and eggs are dead, and as SDA mentioned above, the lifecycle is about 30 days, which means you're not just treating what you see, to need to kill what you don't see as well.

good luck. this will be a tough battle, friend.

QUARANTINE. ALWAYS. QUARANTINE.

Question about Quarantine: If I am putting all my animals in the snake room where no other snakes are housed and all are bought within a 60-90 day window am I not properly quarantining? What am I missing? I am not introducing new animals in a room with established animals I am putting all new animals in there. Honest question not trying to come off bad just curious how what I am doing is different than a best practice. I have thick skin you don't have to sugar coat it.

Thank you!