IBD in Ball Pyhtons

[Buckwheat]

Last weekend my yellow belly was wheezing, so of course I rushed him into the vet for an RI. Nothing is confirmed yet, but after the culture and test results came back the vet called me and mentioned the inflamation and lack of abundant acute RI symptoms suggests that my sweet baby may have Inclusion Body Disease.
We’re going to do a round of antibiotics for a month and see if that effects the inflammation. There’s still hope that he just has an RI but I’ve been looking around and I can’t find as much clear, consistent information on the disease as I would like.
One of the sources I was looking at said that especially in bp’s, euthanasia is often the best option. Obviously I love my little Buckwheat Pancake, he’s only 7 months old, and I would hope that there’s more I can do than that, but I’m not finding much on the subject.
If any of you have any experience I would love to hear from you, to know how he could have picked this up (I don’t own any other boids, I don’t take him outside or introduce him to any other snakes, he’s never had mites in my care), or what early stage symptoms to look out for (he’s behaving normal right now), or any wisdom about treatment.. I would be so grateful. I’m just trying to figure out what a positive diagnosis would mean for him and myself.

[AbsoluteApril]

Your vet should be able to, or be able to send the samples to a lab that can, do a blood test to check for IBD

http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/2014/01/29...s-and-pythons/

[Regius_049]

Simple wheezing and inflammation hardly confirms IBD, but it is always possible. IBD is an extremely difficult disease to diagnose as symptoms can mimic a variety of other conditions and laboratory testing does not catch it 100% of the time. Realistically, IBD likely more often sub-clinical than symptomatic and can remain dormant for years. Paramyxovirus is notorious to appearing similar. It is often described by:

"Infected snakes usually show respiratory signs of disease. Often they show nasal discharge, open-mouth breathing, abscess material building up in the oral cavity and increased respiratory sounds. Some snakes will have signs showing the nervous system has been affected, including head tremors and a severe twisting of the head and neck"

Sound familiar? Also, IBD can present with or without tissue inflammation, though it has been suggested pythons exhibit inflammation more often than boas (likely due to not being a natural carrier). If antibiotics don't clear it up, that still doesn't necessarily mean IBD. The most prudent thing, in my opinion, would be to test the animal for viruses and see if the tests pick up anything. Your vet can order tests through the University of Florida or RAL labs does a "boid panel test" that may be of interest. If it helps at all, while young snakes can contract IBD, it is more common for symptoms to present in older snakes. This is thought to due to virus needing time to build up in the body sufficiently for symptoms to develop.

Your snake could have picked up the disease in a variety of ways, but most likely it came in from: (1) From the breeder, as almost none of them (or other keepers) test for it, or (2) there is evidence that mothers can pass the disease to offspring, so it's possible the dam could have passed it. The arenavirus responsible for IBD is fairly fragile outside a host, so unless your snake came in contact with another snake in some fashion (shed skin, fecal matter, blood, etc.), it is fairly unlikely you brought it in. Mites can transmit it, but you note he has never had them.

IF you snake has IBD, and that's a significant IF, there isn't much you can do unfortunately. It is theorized the virus responsible for IBD has an optimal reproduction temperature around 86 F, which is of course, around the typical theromoregulation temperature for a variety of boid snakes. Thus, you can help the snake combat the infection by lowering the temperature to around 76 or so. You will see a variety of veterinarians prescribe this treatment and the snake will (in the short term) improve. I've seen anecdotal reports then note that after an improvement in condition, the heat was slowly returned and the snake then exhibited a drastic decline. While not proven, my suspicion is this is due to the snake's body temperature being returned to a temperature which re-stimulates viral reproduction. I do not know what timeline would be required for a snake to fight off this infection or if it is even possible, but this is my best suggestion.

Given the prevalence of IBD in research studies, you would expect it to be a lot more common, but it isn't...at least symptomatically. Thus, I suspect IBD is akin to HPV in humans, i.e. most people clear the infection in period of time (~2 years), the virus remains sub-clinically in others for a longer period, potentially manifesting issues if the immune system is depressed, or the patient exhibits problematic symptoms upon infection. Boa constrictors in particular, appear to harbor the disease quite a bit (potentially a naturally occurring virus of the boa) without ill effect. It is possible they indeed clear the virus after a period of time or alternatively remain asymptomatic carriers for their entire lifetime.

In short, I wouldn't freak out just yet.

[Ax01]

here we go again. keep calm everyone.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

mentioned the inflamation and lack of abundant acute RI symptoms suggests that my sweet baby may have Inclusion Body Disease

If your vet made such a statement yet decide to continue anti-biotics you need to find another vet because the one you have has limited knowledge and is just plain irresponsible to suggest this without drawing blood and backing up a possible diagnosis.

Now if it is IBD there is no other option than having the animal put down, IBD is not curable but IBD is also very rare and sadly owners as well as some vet have a tendency to jump to conclusions. In the last decade I have not heard of many cases of BP diagnosed (and I mean properly diagnosed with IBD), however other things (which I won't name so people don't attempt to self diagnose) I have heard of a few times. (As dangerous but not as well known by the average keeper)

Again get a second opinion and culture there are several type of RI which respond to several type of anti-biotic and sadly most vets including the one saying that they will see exotics have limited knowledge.

One example a friend's snake was diagnosed by a vet with scepticimia......the snake was just going to shed

[wolfy-hound]

IBD in ball pythons acts far faster than it does in boas. So when a BP gets IBD it tends to die fairly quickly(within a month or two) as opposed to a boa who can carry it for years possibly.

It is also relatively rare in BPs for that reason. It's difficult to spread from BP to BP when there's no contact, and because they tend to die fairly soon after infection, they don't harbor it from hatching until years later.

Added to that, there's no way to rule out IBD without testing the brain, in addition to the liver and blood. So even if you tested blood and it was negative, the vet can't say "Yes, your snake is IBD free". This is the reason why breeders don't go around testing for IBD.

I would be more inclined to think your snake has a respiratory infection.

(all my IBD info is from the UF vet college herp vets, knowledgeable breeders and several online articles/places... but there may be more up-to-date information or recent developments I am not aware of)

[Regius_049]

IBD in ball pythons acts far faster than it does in boas. So when a BP gets IBD it tends to die fairly quickly(within a month or two) as opposed to a boa who can carry it for years possibly.

It is also relatively rare in BPs for that reason. It's difficult to spread from BP to BP when there's no contact, and because they tend to die fairly soon after infection, they don't harbor it from hatching until years later.

There is a piece of literature that suggests BP are more susceptible to the viral agent of IBD more so than boas. Indeed ball pythons displayed symptoms of IBD following an injection challenge after a period of ~2 months. That said, this time frame is likely an "ideal virus infection" scenario. By that, I mean that this is likely the fastest a ball python will display symptoms as the challenge involved purified virus and direct injection into cardiac tissue. Viral loads under 'real' infection conditions will inevitably be much lower. The assertion that pythons die quickly from IBD is likely an exaggeration of the more probable scenario that pythons are more likely to eventually succumb to the disease, instead of being an asymptomatic carrier for their foreseeable lifetime (boas).

Boa tissue (liver, lung, brain, etc.) and blood all show significant viral concentrations upon observation and tests for boas appear reasonably good on account of the systemic viral presence. Ball pythons indeed (in the study) tend to show more concentrated viral presence in neural tissue. That said, I had some correspondence with a professor at UF as well as he said they had success detecting arenaviruses in a variety of henophids, so the tests (PCR assay using a blood sample) does work in other species.

[Buckwheat]

Thanks for all of your replies!

The more I look into it the more I feel that he probably doesn’t have IBD. I’ll be careful to watch, of course, over the next month of antibiotics and after that, and if I notice more symptoms then... that would suck.
But right now I really think it’s just an RI, he’s not showing any signs of neurological Issues and he’s still eating fine and behaving as usual. His RI doesn’t even seem to be particularly severe, I heard him make wheezes and have seen him yawn but he’s not keeping his head elevated, he doesn’t always make sounds, and he has had no discharge around the nose, no mouth rot, and excess mucus mostly just in the mouth and not in the trachea.
The only reason I haven’t done the blood test right away is because it’s fairly expensive for something that should make itself obvious fairly quickly. If he shows any more signs I may consider the blood test, but for now I’m just going to focus on treating the RI and keeping his normal routine.

Again, thank you, having more information from more perspectives is very reassuring and I appreciate it.

[Buckwheat]

Regius_049’s reply is awesome, I may look into the tests you linked there. My vet said the IBD test is $400, which is the only reason I (a student with a part time job) haven’t requested it yet.
I was wondering if any of you had input on whether that seems right? It looked like that void panel test was a fraction of the cost... and understandably if there’s an option that’s less daunting I’d love to act on it quickly!

[Regius_049]

Regius_049’s reply is awesome, I may look into the tests you linked there. My vet said the IBD test is $400, which is the only reason I (a student with a part time job) haven’t requested it yet.
I was wondering if any of you had input on whether that seems right? It looked like that void panel test was a fraction of the cost... and understandably if there’s an option that’s less daunting I’d love to act on it quickly!

I am sure the vet is charging you $400 for everything, including their (substantial) fee. The tricky part for IBD testing is that it is a blood sample and not everyone knows how to properly draw blood from a snake. So unless you are confident with drawing the blood yourself, you may be stuck with the up-charge. I can tell you that PCR sequencing from UF is $130 for the test itself and they only accept samples from licensed veterinarians or research institutions. The overnight shipping and packaging is probably another $70 or so. Thus, I would estimate the vet fee is around ~$200.

RAL labs will accept a sample from whoever so long as it is packaged and sent properly (again more involved than sending in say, a vent swab or something). While I have used RAL labs for other herp-related tests, I have not used them for IBD. My understanding is that they are basically just a contract lab that will test whatever you wish provided you pay for it. I am admittedly most familiar with the UF testing protocols for IBD and arenavirus testing.