Would a male ball python reach 5 feet

[Regius_049]

Again, i beat you on 2 points (height and width) and you beat me on one point längth. My BP won,t have the same space to stretch himself on the ground as yours, and yours won't have the height to climb and stretch himself to the above as mine. When I finish the setup I could post a photo of him climbing and happy to tease you with it

I had thought I covered this in my above post, but perhaps my description needs work. Either way, this "1 point vs 2 points" is not a valid comparison. His floor space is 1152 sq. inches and your floor space is again 744 sq. inches (a roughly 35% difference). Volumetrically a 48" x 24" x 15" is 17,280 cubic inches and your enclosure (2' x 2.62' 3.30') is ~29,880 cubic inches (43% difference), which I presume is at the core of your argument. However, the 48" x 24" has more usable space. The 48" x 24" floor is pretty much all usable space, where height, even in carefully thought out enclosures with lots of branches is less usable. If you are lucky, you can maybe utilize 50% of that additional volume. If you utilize the "hypotenuse" of your cage and give it a ~3.8' branch, you can increase the space for the snake to "stretch" out, but for a larger snake this is less ideal than a ground area as effort must be taken for the snake to maintain it's position. You can utilize ledges to help improve this, but your usable space and "stretchable" length is still limited.

This the the reason experienced keepers recommend longer setups for arboreal and terrestrial species as I mentioned previously. They understand the utilization of space.

Your 2 long, 2,62 deep, 3,30 high is actually a pretty nice enclosure for a variety of reptile species, but not ideal for most boids I can think of off the top of my head. Perhaps a male GTP (green tree python) or ATB (amazon tree boa). It would make a killer gecko setup though.

[redshepherd]

Just wanted to add too that nobody is arguing your setup is "too high"- the more height the better, go for it! But ball pythons require enough floor space so they're not curled up on the floor without room to stretch out horizontally, if they want to.

Sure they climb, but they don't climb and perch 99.9% of the time. They need the horizontal space to travel on the floor.

[Dutti]

I had thought I covered this in my above post, but perhaps my description needs work. Either way, this "1 point vs 2 points" is not a valid comparison. His floor space is 1152 sq. inches and your floor space is again 744 sq. inches (a roughly 35% difference). Volumetrically a 48" x 24" x 15" is 17,280 cubic inches and your enclosure (2' x 2.62' 3.30') is ~29,880 cubic inches (43% difference), which I presume is at the core of your argument. However, the 48" x 24" has more usable space. The 48" x 24" floor is pretty much all usable space, where height, even in carefully thought out enclosures with lots of branches is less usable. If you are lucky, you can maybe utilize 50% of that additional volume. If you utilize the "hypotenuse" of your cage and give it a ~3.8' branch, you can increase the space for the snake to "stretch" out, but for a larger snake this is less ideal than a ground area as effort must be taken for the snake to maintain it's position. You can utilize ledges to help improve this, but your usable space and "stretchable" length is still limited.

This the the reason experienced keepers recommend longer setups for arboreal and terrestrial species as I mentioned previously. They understand the utilization of space.

Your 2 long, 2,62 deep, 3,30 high is actually a pretty nice enclosure for a variety of reptile species, but not ideal for most boids I can think of off the top of my head. Perhaps a male GTP (green tree python) or ATB (amazon tree boa). It would make a killer gecko setup though.

In addition to the many branches that I will use to utilize the height, I will install a big board(21x14 inches)in which my BP would lay and stretch on, so he won't only just climb and perch like a GTP. He will have an additional floor space above.

[Steve pisarchik]

I love it when someone asks for advise or thoughts and then does not listen to the advise given. Even when its given by very expierenced people.

[Joci]

No offense to you Dutti, but not considering the answers that the experts on this forum give seems to be a trend with you... Why are you asking questions and giving information if you don't seem to want their advice??

Also, do a quick google search and you will find that ball pythons are a terrestrial species. They spend most of their lives underground in abandoned rodent burrows, or hidden under foliage waiting for their next meal.

It's not in their nature to climb up to a "floor space", and I simply don't understand why you would insist on keeping such an animal in an enclosure that is obviously meant for an arboreal animal!

[Dutti]

No offense to you Dutti, but not considering the answers that the experts on this forum give seems to be a trend with you... Why are you asking questions and giving information if you don't seem to want their advice??

Also, do a quick google search and you will find that ball pythons are a terrestrial species. They spend most of their lives underground in abandoned rodent burrows, or hidden under foliage waiting for their next meal.

It's not in their nature to climb up to a "floor space", and I simply don't understand why you would insist on keeping such an animal in an enclosure that is obviously meant for an arboreal animal!

You are talking like he is not going to have any floor space at all. Of course he will have a hide, his water bowl and his heating source all on the floor and an additional space will remain also. Every animal is differant. If i put him for example in a glass tank (like the photo of SDA) no matter how big the floor space is, most likely that he will go off food because he does not like to be seen a lot. The most important indication if a BP is happy and secure is that he eats regulary and do not go off food. All the talk about utilizing the height and istalling a board and branches is only meant when he sometimes get active at night so he will have enough space to move.

[Sauzo]

You are talking like he is not going to have any floor space at all. Of course he will have a hide, his water bowl and his heating source all on the floor and an additional space will remain also. Every animal is differant. If i put him for example in a glass tank (like the photo of SDA) no matter how big the floor space is, most likely that he will go off food because he does not like to be seen a lot. The most important indication if a BP is happy and secure is that he eats regulary and do not go off food. All the talk about utilizing the height and istalling a board and branches is only meant when he sometimes get active at night so he will have enough space to move.

Actually that is wrong. They go off feed during breed season too a lot of time. My female quit eating for 6 months. Before that she ate like a horse and after that she ate like a horse. BPs more or less just regulate their own food intake.

And you said your BP would go off food if he is seen a lot. Well guess what chief, putting him in a 2x2 floor space cage crammed with a cool and warm hide and water bowl and then giving it 3 feet of branches with a platform to sit on is about the most open you can get.

And i dont know about you but my 4.5 foot BP uses large RB hides which are about 12x9 inches and she fits tight in them. 2 of those combined with a large water bowl like i said above is going to leave pretty much no room on the floor so you are basically forcing the BP to go arboreal or sit squished up and double backed on itself in a little 2x2 box.

You need to do what is best for the snake, not what you feel is best and considering 99% of the people are trying to tell you you need to go with more floor space and the fact the thousands of people who have kept BPs for years and years and years also say they need floor space, you still ignore it and think your snake is some unique snowflake that needs 3 feet of height and 2x2 floor space. You have the same thought about your boa being 1.5 years old and like 5 feet or something crazy like that and eating large rats. I'm sorry to inform you but you dont have unique snakes, you just have snakes that you have grossly pigeonholed into what your idea of them should be. Listen to the folks who have had snakes longer than you have probably been alive. They know what they are talking about.

[Dutti]

Actually that is wrong. They go off feed during breed season too a lot of time. My female quit eating for 6 months. Before that she ate like a horse and after that she ate like a horse. BPs more or less just regulate their own food intake.

And you said your BP would go off food if he is seen a lot. Well guess what chief, putting him in a 2x2 floor space cage crammed with a cool and warm hide and water bowl and then giving it 3 feet of branches with a platform to sit on is about the most open you can get.

And i dont know about you but my 4.5 foot BP uses large RB hides which are about 12x9 inches and she fits tight in them. 2 of those combined with a large water bowl like i said above is going to leave pretty much no room on the floor so you are basically forcing the BP to go arboreal or sit squished up and double backed on itself in a little 2x2 box.

You need to do what is best for the snake, not what you feel is best and considering 99% of the people are trying to tell you you need to go with more floor space and the fact the thousands of people who have kept BPs for years and years and years also say they need floor space, you still ignore it and think your snake is some unique snowflake that needs 3 feet of height and 2x2 floor space. You have the same thought about your boa being 1.5 years old and like 5 feet or something crazy like that and eating large rats. I'm sorry to inform you but you dont have unique snakes, you just have snakes that you have grossly pigeonholed into what your idea of them should be. Listen to the folks who have had snakes longer than you have probably been alive. They know what they are talking about.

The floor space is 2x2,60 and you are making it smaller. And he will have only one cool hide. If he wants to use the belly heat, he does not need a hide. It won,t be that full, the hide size is 11x10 inches. And the water bowl is not that large, it is designed only for drinking not soaking 8x6,6 inches. By the way, my boa got a very big enclosure size in feet: 7,20 long, 2,60 deep, 4,60 high because i excpect him to reach the 10 feet at least as adult. He is 17 months old now and eating large rats. This is his latest feeding video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oNLd45lb2A

[Sauzo]

I have yet to see a 10' BCI. The largest boas are BCC and Peruvians to be exact. And to reach those lengths, you are looking at around a 10+ year old snake.

Basically like i said before, you just power fed him to that size in that short of time. Even continued power feeding wont make them reach 10'.

But back to the BP. You say he is shy and doesnt like to be seen but you are denying him a warm side hide...so here we go again with you imposing your power on the snake. All BPs should have a warm and cool hide unless they are in a rack in which case, the rack itself acts like a giant hide.

And you made it small, i forgot the 6 inches so we are looking at a 2x2.6 foot floor. 6 inches isnt going to mean squat on that small of a footprint. Do the snake a favor and flip the cage on its side so he has a 3x2.6x2 cage and make him happy.

And the point to the feeding video? Not really amazing as i have a 7'+ retic who eats 2XL guinea pigs and probably piglets if i let him lol. I still am sticking by my comment of that boa is being power fed or its age is way off. Thats the problem with a lot of people, they are in a hurry to grow their snakes to these huge sizes and then brag about it. You are doing nothing but showing your inexperience and damaging the animal.

Sorry about the rant and sounding like a jerk but your care for your snakes just rubs me the wrong way to no end.

I spend a lot of time on the boa FB pages and i see so many people with very good animals say they feel their animals are underfed or small. Me as well as other people on the boards have to let them know their animals are in perfect shape. The problem isnt their animal, its that 90% of the boas you see nowadays are overweight and overfed/powerfed so it has almost become the norm. I kind of blame it on some breeders to an extent but i also blame the industy. To make the big cash and stay on top of the morph market, breeders have to grow their snakes quick so they can breed quick so they can be the first to reap the highest cash rewards on said morph. Then once the guys who raise their boas correctly reach the breeding of said morph, the power feeding breeders move on to the next up and coming morph and rinse and repeat. They dont care about the long term welfare of the animal, they care about the bottom line and how much cash they can milk out of it. I also see that from guys who brag about having a huge boa that is only a couple years old etc. I've also noticed some people buy burms, retics and anacondas to seem cool and then dont reaize how big they get and once they get too big, they try and rehome them....surprise, zoos no longer have room to take all those snakes and either do shelters....

On the flip side, you almost never see this with BCC or local stuff. Most of that stuff is slow grown and fed very conservatively so you see these 4 year old BCCs on small rats and only about 4' long.

Anyways, I'm done ranting haha. just had to get that off my chest as i was just talking to a gal a few nights ago about her boa that she felt was skinny and underfed and it actually looked in awesome shape.

[Sauzo]

To add for example, look at Scoria Boas. The only guy doing those was Henry Poirun in Canada and he was selling pairs for like 25k. Now there are a lot of people in the states breeding them as well morphs of them and they have dropped to 7k or so. Heck he has dropped them down to 19.5k for a pair now. Same thing with pied BPs. I saw a sheet someone posted from a well known breeder from years ago and pieds were going for 10k. Now you can get pied BPs for 250-400.

Now i just need people to make super dwarf pied retics. I talked to a few people who had them in the works but havent heard anything. I am guessing they are going to be around 5k+ mark since a mainland pied is going for 1500-2k. What i wouldnt give to get my hands on a super dwarf pied retic