What do you think of my first pairing?

[Ax01]

my goal is to create a Banana version of this girl. i want high lavender sides with yellow, orange and maybe gold speckling with a reduced pattern. i think it will take me awhile to get there tho.


she's Cat, my Butterbee G-Stripe.


she just had a nice, fresh shed and big poo over the weekend. she's 1700-plus grams now. she will be 4years old this year and i don't think i will pair her until she's above 2,000grams or sometime in 2018.



i was thinking of pairing her with my Banana Mojave named Munchkin.

he was on a winter fast and just started eating again, 2 weeks now! i want him above 1,000grams before any breeding.


he's a good looking feller, just 1year old.

[Ax01]

i'm not sure how to post a table and i hope this doesn't come out all jumbled up, but here are the possibilities from this pairing:

/	%	Traits	# Traits	Morph Name
1/16	6%	Banana Butter Mojave Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	5	Banana Bee Blue Eyed Lucy (But Moj) 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Butter Mojave Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	4	Blue Eyed Lucy (But Moj) Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana Butter Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe	4	Blue Eyed Lucy (But Moj) Banana 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana Butter Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	4	Banana Bee Butter 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana Mojave Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	4	Banana Bee Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe	3	Banana Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Mojave Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	3	Mojave Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Butter Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	3	Butter Bee 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Butter Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe	3	Blue Eyed Lucy (But Moj) 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana Butter 100% Het Genetic Stripe	3	Banana Butter 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	3	Banana Bee 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Banana 100% Het Genetic Stripe	2	Banana 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Butter 100% Het Genetic Stripe	2	Butter 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe	2	Mojave 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe	2	Spider 100% Het Genetic Stripe
1/16	6%	100% Het Genetic Stripe	1	100% Het Genetic Stripe

i would also be excited for a Banana BEL as well. i've seen a few hatch with a slight yellow tint overall. does anyone know if they developed freckles? that would be cool and Cow Retic-esque if they did.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Would definitely be a pretty animal if you can pull it off. A lot of stuff is going to have to align right. In my opinion you are being a little over cautious with the weights. This year was the youngest male pairing I ever did. I didn't think he would be ready so I watched him very carefully. I believe he hatched for me around July 2016. His weight when he went in was around 350 grams. He has at least three females very gravid. He never stopped eating through the entire process and is now around 700 grams I think. I have also had males that were not ready at 800 grams and over a year. When they are ready they are ready. As to females, most of my girls are well over 2000 grams however they were laying nice clutches when I stated them at 1200. I just bought a few females from Garrick ranging in age from 2007 to 2011. Weight ranges on them are from 1480 to 1560. They all have produced multiple clutches with pretty good clutch sizes. I wont breed them till next season but I'm guessing I could put another 200 - 300 grams on them best case scenario before the season starts again. Your animals and it never hurts to be cautious but I for one want to see what you can make. I know you have some really nice animals in that collection.

[artist&writer]

Good luck with all of your future pairings! I am with JordanOrNoDan though, they don't have to be quite so big before pairing them. Talking to several breeders outside the forum has me convinced that they don't need to be 2000 grams plus to breed. Several start pairing as low as 1000 grams, because usually be the time they lay they are 1500 grams plus.

[kxr]

As far as I know leucistics can't produce pigment and that's why they are white. If that is the case then a banana bel can't have spots. I'm not a huge fan of pairing that can produce leucistics with extra hidden traits but hey that's just me. It'll be a diverse clutch no matter what. Good luck on the odds.

[Ax01]

Would definitely be a pretty animal if you can pull it off. A lot of stuff is going to have to align right. In my opinion you are being a little over cautious with the weights. This year was the youngest male pairing I ever did. I didn't think he would be ready so I watched him very carefully. I believe he hatched for me around July 2016. His weight when he went in was around 350 grams. He has at least three females very gravid. He never stopped eating through the entire process and is now around 700 grams I think. I have also had males that were not ready at 800 grams and over a year. When they are ready they are ready. As to females, most of my girls are well over 2000 grams however they were laying nice clutches when I stated them at 1200. I just bought a few females from Garrick ranging in age from 2007 to 2011. Weight ranges on them are from 1480 to 1560. They all have produced multiple clutches with pretty good clutch sizes. I wont breed them till next season but I'm guessing I could put another 200 - 300 grams on them best case scenario before the season starts again. Your animals and it never hurts to be cautious but I for one want to see what you can make. I know you have some really nice animals in that collection.

yeah, i only really need to pair her w/ another Banana G-Stripe or het G-Stripe and hope for the best and hit a BP w/ all 4 traits. but i don't really want to buy another Banana boy, so i'll just produce a het for future pairings. (also i know alotta peeps always say Super Stripes are better, but Super Stripe Spider combos that i've seen have really busy sides.)

Good luck with all of your future pairings! I am with JordanOrNoDan though, they don't have to be quite so big before pairing them. Talking to several breeders outside the forum has me convinced that they don't need to be 2000 grams plus to breed. Several start pairing as low as 1000 grams, because usually be the time they lay they are 1500 grams plus.

yeah, i'm just not in a hurry. i don't even have an incubator!

As far as I know leucistics can't produce pigment and that's why they are white. If that is the case then a banana bel can't have spots. I'm not a huge fan of pairing that can produce leucistics with extra hidden traits but hey that's just me. It'll be a diverse clutch no matter what. Good luck on the odds.

is that your perspective as a breeder? like u don't want to misrepresent or undervalue a sale? or it makes it harder to work with? or u just don't like them visually? like the other traits don't add anything to a BEL? i've seen a few Banana/Coral Glow BEL hatchlings and they have a yellow tint overall (like how some BEL's yellow out as they age but these were babies). i haven't seen older ones tho.

Edit: i guess i could pair het w/ my Banana Cinny het Pied (296grams currently) in the future. also i just got a Banana Cinny Champ but can't /won't breed him to a Spider combo.

[kxr]

is that your perspective as a breeder? like u don't want to misrepresent or undervalue a sale? or it makes it harder to work with? or u just don't like them visually? like the other traits don't add anything to a BEL? i've seen a few Banana/Coral Glow BEL hatchlings and they have a yellow tint overall (like how some BEL's yellow out as they age but these were babies). i haven't seen older ones tho.

Edit: i guess i could pair het w/ my Banana Cinny het Pied (296grams currently) in the future. also i just got a Banana Cinny Champ but can't /won't breed him to a Spider combo.

This is my perspective as a very inexperienced breeder. It has to do with me not wanting to under/over value an animal (although typing that out makes me realize how shallow that sounds) however it has more to do with most genes not adding anything to the BEL. Personally I'm not a fan of BELs in general. Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful in their own right and they are a great end goal but I like the idea of working towards a long term goal.

With me working towards long term goals I might want to produce a specific combo from my pairings. If I have the possibility to produce BELs I might hit my desired combo as a BEL and have no idea I hit it. I would then either have to wait and prove the animals or sell it without knowing the genetics. If there's a slim chance of me producing what I need I may produce multiple BELs that I would need to hold back before I produce/prove out the desired animal. If I did end up selling them I would always wonder "What if that snake was the combo I needed after all?" and I'd have no piece of mind.

It's entirely possible that I have no idea what I'm talking about and there are some really cool bel combos and ways to determine all the genes present. I guess I really shouldn't be handing out my inexperienced opinion. You'd have to get someone like Eric or Deborah to confirm/deny my opinion.


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[JodanOrNoDan]

I am definitely not the most experienced breeder around. My knowledge is limited to the morphs in my own collection. When I make something I have never tried to make I always ask for opinions. I have found that the breeders that sold you the parents tend to be very helpful with helping to identify your babies. Working with BELs can be difficult but they are a very powerful tool. I have a blacklight that helps a little. Sometimes there is just no way to tell that I know of so I try to avoid that breeding. The supers can be a pain and the breeding's have to be well planed so you know what is in what. This is why I wanted Purple Passions so bad. The purple passions give me a BEL like animal where either gene will produce something nice and so far I can tell the Phantom and Mojave combos apart. I don't really care about lost money because of a "maybe gene". I just hate buying "maybe genes". I have a lesser+mojave maybe+ pastel. I'm 90% sure she is pastel but I would rather be sure. I am not going to know until her eggs hatch. She went to my lavender spider so I should be able to tell what is in her. I hate maybe. I would rather she did not have pastel and if I wanted to add pastel I could breed to a Super. I do not want to pass on my frustrations to buyers. The animal either has it or it doesn't.