what do you wish you had known before your first ball python? and good UK breeders?

[dr del]

I wish I had known about the ideas, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes expressed in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc2PBsY7v0&t=308s

Good video.

I am not that business focused on it as it was always a hobby from my point of view rather than a way of making money but he explains his position clearly.

[Eric Alan]

I wish I had known about the ideas, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes expressed in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzc2PBsY7v0&t=308s

Here's my take on his take:

1. I agree that breeding ball pythons is not a get rich scheme. Like so many things, sometimes the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one.
2. I agree that the priority for someone younger wanting to get into the business should be to first get an education. Spending tuition money on snakes is not a good idea for most.
3. I agree that if you are going to do it anyway, then you should absolutely have a passion for what you're doing and be willing to invest significant time and energy into doing so.

I don't agree that he should be looked at as someone who's an expert on BPs or the BP market at all. Not even remotely so. Here's why:

1. He said that he bought four BPs - 1 Paint, 2 Normals, and 1 Pastel. Two of the four died because of "genetic issues".
2. He felt it was inhumane to keep them in a rack system and described their behavior in the 125G aquarium as being happy because they were all over the place (which was quite likely a sign of stress).
3. He says, "I didn't care enough about my snakes to give every last one of them that type of environment" - the environment he described as making them happy (the 125G aquarium). He doesn't care to make them happy?
4. He talked about a Hovabator incubator as if it were the crème de la crème for ball pythons. They are most certainly not - not even close.

Again, just my honest worth (which would probably have been better spent paying off my student loans ).

Best regards,
Eric

[Lizardlicks]

Yeah honestly, that video rubs me the wrong way on so many points, and it mostly because he's judging the hobby, and breeding in general based off his failure, but his failure was due to unrealistic expectations, lack of commitment, lack of research, and lack of passion for the specific animal, not a flaw or failure in the market and certainly not in the animals. He jumped without looking first, is it any wonder when he smacked his butt on the bottom?

[Zincubus]

I don't see it as being as bad as many in here .. He sounds like a pretty bright guy with his head screwed on , if he's speaking from his perspective and experiences it should be seen as just one persons's viewpoint and not THE definitive one . It all depends on where he got his information from about the available rack systems and the ' ball python market ' he talks about . He's maybe just badly misinformed .
That said I'm in the UK and know nothing at all about rack systems ..

[EDR]

If there's something you want thats pretty expensive just wait it out a year or two cause the price will probably go down. I got my banana boy right before banana prices dropped. I paid $1500 for him early 2014 by the end of that year i could of got a 3 gene banana combo for $1500. I felt kinda salty but I don't resent my nana in any way for this. I think banana by it self is impressive enough.

[alienpenguin]

Thanks for everyone's help.

That video does piss me off. I agree with Eric Alan on the video. He says he doesn't care enough about his snakes to give them what he thinks is the right environment. If you don't care enough about an animal regardless of what it is to give it the right environment to thrive you have no business owning said animal. I'm not an expert obviously most of my research is from the internet (though I have done a lot) I thought if snakes are happy they sometimes don't move for hours or even days and if they are stressed they move a lot. This would make the video wrong.

I'm not planning on breeding ball pythons anyway. I wouldn't definitely discount it maybe in a few years with more confidence but I'm not planning on buying snakes to breed and sell as some kind of get rich scheme. Some people seem to get ball pythons thinking they will breed them into really cool morphs and make loads of money without any understanding of genetics or how much time and energy it takes the proper professional breeders to do this. While I will of course take the time to provide any snakes I buy with the correct environment and everything they need to thrive I'm not sure I would be able to put in the extra time and energy to breed and raise them competently.

As for types of morphs I like albinos, bananas and piebalds best. I also like the silvery ones but I don't know what that morph is called (pic below) anyone know the morph name? I know some morphs are more expensive than others but I'm willing to pay more to get exactly what I want.

[Zincubus]

Thanks for everyone's help.

That video does piss me off. I agree with Eric Alan on the video. He says he doesn't care enough about his snakes to give them what he thinks is the right environment. If you don't care enough about an animal regardless of what it is to give it the right environment to thrive you have no business owning said animal. I'm not an expert obviously most of my research is from the internet (though I have done a lot) I thought if snakes are happy they sometimes don't move for hours or even days and if they are stressed they move a lot. This would make the video wrong.

I'm not planning on breeding ball pythons anyway. I wouldn't definitely discount it maybe in a few years with more confidence but I'm not planning on buying snakes to breed and sell as some kind of get rich scheme. Some people seem to get ball pythons thinking they will breed them into really cool morphs and make loads of money without any understanding of genetics or how much time and energy it takes the proper professional breeders to do this. While I will of course take the time to provide any snakes I buy with the correct environment and everything they need to thrive I'm not sure I would be able to put in the extra time and energy to breed and raise them competently.

As for types of morphs I like albinos, bananas and piebalds best. I also like the silvery ones but I don't know what that morph is called (pic below) anyone know the morph name? I know some morphs are more expensive than others but I'm willing to pay more to get exactly what I want.

One little point , that so called rule about snakes moving around clearly can't be levelled at all types of snakes .

To be honest , I'm not even sure where that idea came from anyways . Any evidence ??

So many are simply acting normal by sleeping during the day as they are nocturnal and as such you're unlikely to see them in daylight hours ..


Incidentally , anyone know the type of Morph at the bottom ??


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[MissterDog]

Being on the same boat with never owning a snake before (only have cats and betta fish), this thread is so incredibly helpful! Seriously, the value of this thread and all the wisdom everyone is sharing is priceless. Thank you for being such an awesome community! And thank you op for starting this thread!

[Lizardlicks]

To be honest , I'm not even sure where that idea came from anyways . Any evidence ??

Well this got long winded, but I think it probably counts under "things a new keeper should know before getting a snake" so here you go.

The ideas are from direct observations of ball python behavior in the wild. It also comes from observations of stressed ball python behavior in captivity.

Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily apply to active hunter species like most colubrids, or large predator species like the big pythons. They have different hunting styles, live in different places and/or deal with different predation pressures due to size or defensive features like venom. Ball pythons are nocturnal ambush predators, but more than that...

Balls are from sub-Saharan Africa, savannah and scrub land. This is home to the TOP mega predators of our current era; we're talking lions, leopards, hyenas, wild dogs, jackals, cheetahs, honey badgers, secretary birds, hawks, crocs, lizards and even other, bigger snakes, and that list is hardly exhaustive! A ball python, is basically on the last few bottom steps of the food chain in their native habitat, only thing under it being the rodents and small birds they eat and the bugs those eat. They're not powerhouses, and they don't have venom- in short a tasty, low risk, low effort tube of meat. As such, the ball python's best defense from being snacked on is not being found or caught in the first place.

So they hide. Most adults will find a nice rodent borrow, eat the current residents, and stay there for weeks chomping down what ever unlucky sucker comes along looking for some new digs. If it starts to smell too much like snake stank, they move on to a new borrow, and repeat the process. The snakes are most active when they're younger- juveniles have been recorded going up into trees to eat bird chicks from nests- and when they're interested in finding a mate. Other than that, a ball that's hidden, is a ball that lives.

In our homes, they don't know that a hawk or leopard isn't going to swoop down on them from above, and there's no way to explain it to them. Their instincts tell them to stay hidden, stay safe, and stay alive. When introduced to a large enclosure that doesn't sufficiently break up line of sight as much as possible, they feel open and exposed. the stress and feeling vulnerable puts them off food because eating and digesting a meal makes them even more vulnerable. There is a reason we advise new keepers to put their snakes into small tubs if they aren't eating: it's because designing a large enclosure for a snake is a tricky thing for the inexperienced. We get them into a habitat where they feel safe, get them relaxed and feeding again, before trying to scale back up with a better idea of the needs of the animal in mind. It may seem "cruel" to keep them in a small cage set up because we think of the wild as this HUUUUUGE sprawling thing of wide open spaces, but when you understand that a bp can live it's entire 30+ year life span until ranging within a 3 mile radius, you start to realize how much of it they don't really actively use.

[Zincubus]

^^^^* a very convincing case has been made .... although I have also heard reports of some researchers who regularly found Royals resting in branches of trees in their natural habitat whilst studying their behaviour .

I will do some searching online ...