i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

[kxr]

In my opinion the rare chance that an animal has a severe wobble is not worth missing the opportunity of working with these beautiful genes. I do however think that the ethical thing to do is avoid breeding any wobbly morphs together. I currently own a beautiful spider that seems to be perfectly normal. Someday I'd also love to add hidden gene woma, spotnose and champagne into my collection. I will do my best to avoid any breedings that combine those genes in effort to reduce the chances of producing severe wobble animals.

I've heard spotnose is less severe then the other genes mentioned and even has a viable super but I'm still going to avoid combining it with other wobble genes and producing the super.

One question I have is what do you do with an animal with a really bad wobble?
Is it right for breeders to cull those animals or is it there responsibility to try to keep the animal alive despite a potentially low quality of life? I feel like it would be more ethical to cull these animals but I have no first hand experience with a bad wobble animal and how bad it actually effects them.


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[Seven-Thirty]

In my opinion the rare chance that an animal has a severe wobble is not worth missing the opportunity of working with these beautiful genes. I do however think that the ethical thing to do is avoid breeding any wobbly morphs together. I currently own a beautiful spider that seems to be perfectly normal. Someday I'd also love to add hidden gene woma, spotnose and champagne into my collection. I will do my best to avoid any breedings that combine those genes in effort to reduce the chances of producing severe wobble animals.

I've heard spotnose is less severe then the other genes mentioned and even has a viable super but I'm still going to avoid combining it with other wobble genes and producing the super.

One question I have is what do you do with an animal with a really bad wobble?
Is it right for breeders to cull those animals or is it there responsibility to try to keep the animal alive despite a potentially low quality of life? I feel like it would be more ethical to cull these animals but I have no first hand experience with a bad wobble animal and how bad it actually effects them.


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in terms of mixing wobblers together, they tend to not thrive 99% of the time such as spider champagne, spider powerball, hidden gene woma champagne. But some of them come out perfectly normal like hidden gene woma spider, spotnose champagne, and spotnose hidden gene woma. Spotnose spider is iffybecause i've heard varying degress of the viability. Ben renick has made numerous combos of thatpairing and they'veall lived to adulthood with no noticeable problems or differences from regular spiders where as justin kobylka has stated that spider spotnose comes out extremely dingy but can still eat so, spider crosses with spotnose are still in infancy interms of information. (I got this information from asking them directly)

As for animals will really bad wobbles, from my understanding, the amount of spiders that come out with a really bad wobble still thrive, it's just a bit more time consuming during feeding time because you have to check wvery little bit to see if they lost track oftherat ornot. That is also a moot point because i have to that with my non-wobblers anyway. In my opinion a bad wobbler that would have to be euthanized would be something that's dingy beyond repair like NERD's pearls that Kevin would accidently make back in like 2009-era where lethal combos were still being discovered. Those snakes have a wobble that's a 100x more problematic than the spiders.

A little side note: I do not have anything against people who choose not to own spiders but what I have a problem with is people bad mouthing and bashing people who own or breed spiders. (I.e. Reptiblr)

[kxr]

in terms of mixing wobblers together, they tend to not thrive 99% of the time such as spider champagne, spider powerball, hidden gene woma champagne. But some of them come out perfectly normal like hidden gene woma spider, spotnose champagne, and spotnose hidden gene woma. Spotnose spider is iffybecause i've heard varying degress of the viability. Ben renick has made numerous combos of thatpairing and they'veall lived to adulthood with no noticeable problems or differences from regular spiders where as justin kobylka has stated that spider spotnose comes out extremely dingy but can still eat so, spider crosses with spotnose are still in infancy interms of information. (I got this information from asking them directly) )

I want to comment on this really quickly. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way (although it probably will be) because by no means do I think Kevin or Ben are bad people but I'm not convinced of the viability of any of those animals. In a (somewhat) recent nerd video (one of the ones with Bill Galloway) it shows a spotnose hgw combo and that animal appears to be very wonky. Again I suppose this comes down to personal preference but I don't see an animal that wonky as something that should be intentionally propagated just because it CAN survive.

Now that could have just been a severe case considering the sample size is exactly one but the logical part of my brain says "even if there isn't a synergistic effect on the wobble of an animal by combining two wobbly genes together it would be twice as likely to produce a severely afflicted animal because there are twice as many genes that could create a severe wobble".

Either way until I have first hand experience with larger quantities of these animals (which I doubt I will ever have) I will be intentionally avoiding producing any combos involving more then one "wobbly" gene.

[Monty44]

in terms of mixing wobblers together, they tend to not thrive 99% of the time such as spider champagne, spider powerball, hidden gene woma champagne. But some of them come out perfectly normal like hidden gene woma spider, spotnose champagne, and spotnose hidden gene woma. Spotnose spider is iffybecause i've heard varying degress of the viability. Ben renick has made numerous combos of thatpairing and they'veall lived to adulthood with no noticeable problems or differences from regular spiders where as justin kobylka has stated that spider spotnose comes out extremely dingy but can still eat so, spider crosses with spotnose are still in infancy interms of information. (I got this information from asking them directly)

What about a hidden gene woma cinnamon? I have one of those and I haven't noticed any wobbling. Tbh I haven't really looked for it and he tends to miss when striking food but I assumed that hat was normal ball activity.

[Seven-Thirty]

If I could find the blogpost about it i'd post it but it seems to have disappeared from the realm of the internet. The all white snake is, what is believed to be, the super spider. A little background, it has been more or less accepted that the spider mutation has occured twice in two types of pythons. The carpet python and the ball python being the jaguar and spider morphs respectively. The jaguar carpet python has the same tendency to wobble just like the spider and the super jaguar carpet is a homozygous lethal which results in a dead leucistic snake. From what I remember, the dead white snake fails to develop lungs and as a result dies. There are no known living super jaguars. Now there has been cases of white snakes occuring from spider x spider but it is extremely rare for the embryo to even hit that stage it seems.

As for that report, I haven't read it in a while but from what I remember the conclusion is inconclusive and that it doesn't not create a controlled enviornment to determine which spiders are affected by the wobble. i.e. A default environment that all the tested snakes will be kept in and monitored. It also just takes people's account of their spiders not taking into account how those spiders are kept and the individual keeper's hunsbandry practices. I mean, they asked 100 people and only 13 responded and who knows how they keep their snakes. It is known that environment is a big factor in how bad the wobble manifests in that a spider that shows virtually no wobble can have the worst wobble ever if the husbandry isn't to the T. Imo that report should
be thrown out and not taken as fact due to the lack of the scientific method. It is based of a questionaire with no real evidence being presented.

Again, spiders do great, have no problems thriving and, if anything, it is a visual indicator of stress imo. I have yet to hear of a spider actually dying from the wobble alone. Most of the time when I hear a spider can't, it's either the ownrr just being impatient to let the spider figure out where the rat is after it constricts. A spider isn't dumb and still knows how to eat, even though it looks wonky or takes it a bit longer than the rest. My spider does the little wobble while it attempts to swallow but it still eats faster than some of my non-wobblers who lose track of the rat and spend like half an hour trying to find it.

To reiterate, there's nothing inheritly wrong with the spider from a thriving and quality of life standpoint. Non-wobblers that have a wobble tend to do a lot worse than the mutations that have wobbles.