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  1. #1
    BPnet Senior Member tttaylorrr's Avatar
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    i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

    their wobble is honestly depressing when it's so bad; it stems from the fact that i've seen so many videos of sweet spider morphs struggling so hard to eat. obvi that's just my opinion.

    in my mind, i feel i'm promoting the morph, proving they're in demand, and allowing unreputable breeders to keep producing these babies with very terrible dispositions. or bad breeders sell to other breeders, and buying from the other breeder continues the cycle. idk, i'm conflicted.

    please tell me i'm wrong. please tell me spiders/morphs with very bad wobbles are rare and they're even more rarely sold. i think they're beautiful and what they add to other morphs is awesome!

    i have this whole "breeding tree" i'm making/dreaming of and i have specifically excluded all spider morphs. that's where my thoughts come from.

    any insight into this is greatly appreciated! just a mini rant, but i'm also fairly ignorant to these kinds of "defects" (i say with quotes bc i know most spiders live happy, healthy lives!).
    4.4 ball python
    1.0 Albino 0.1 Coral Glow 0.1 Super Cinnamon paradox 1.0 Piebald 0.1 Pastel Enchi Leopard het Piebald 1.0 Coral Glow het Piebald

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    0.1 cat
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    0.1 human ✌︎

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  3. #2
    BPnet Veteran Seven-Thirty's Avatar
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    They are rare and usually an indicator of stress. Virtually 99.9% of spiders will live perfectly normal lives with virtually no wobble or a noticable wobble that doesn't hamper the snake in anyway. The snake isn't stressed by the wobble what so ever rather the wobble gets worse when the snake is stressed. This is from my experience mind you. The other 0.1% are usually trainwrecks that have something else wrong with them that worsens the wobble, i.e. A birth defect or another under lying issue. Those ones don't live either way so the chances of that being passed down, if genetic, are slim. The trainwrecks you see on youtube, tumblr, etc. are isolated cases. Most of the time those snakes are actually stressed. I've had a few spiders with varying degrees of wobbles and none have never been as bad as the ones in those videos.

    also note, any snake can have a wobble either from birth defect or some sort of trauma or chemical "poisoning". I've seen non spiders wobble and those do a lot worse than spiders.

    Another note, there are other morphs that wobble but none are as severe as the spider in terms of wobble intensity. For example, champgnes can wobble but very rarely would you ever notice one actually do the classic wobble.

    interesting thing to note about the wobble, you'll never notice it when the snake is moving on the ground. The wobble only manifests when their head is off the ground. There is nothing weong with the spider morph at all and they live perfectly normal healthy lives. Hell my breeder black widow is the most feistiest thing on the planet and his wobble never hampers him. He eats like a truck and breeds like no tomorrow.

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  5. #3
    BPnet Senior Member tttaylorrr's Avatar
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    Re: i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven-Thirty View Post
    They are rare and usually an indicator of stress. Virtually 99.9% of spiders will live perfectly normal lives with virtually no wobble or a noticable wobble that doesn't hamper the snake in anyway.
    thank for all of your helpful insight! that helps me understand the morph much better. so my whole idea of "bad breeders produce bad spiders for $$$" is just in my head? is there such a thing as "bad" spider morphs?

    i really, really do appreciate your reply. thank you so much for the reply!
    Last edited by tttaylorrr; 02-24-2017 at 02:08 AM.
    4.4 ball python
    1.0 Albino 0.1 Coral Glow 0.1 Super Cinnamon paradox 1.0 Piebald 0.1 Pastel Enchi Leopard het Piebald 1.0 Coral Glow het Piebald

    1.0 corn snake
    1.0 Hypo

    1.0 crested gecko
    0.1 ????

    0.1 cat
    0.1 Maine Coon mix

    0.1 human ✌︎

  6. #4
    BPnet Lifer Eric Alan's Avatar
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    Without stepping up on a podium (OK, maybe a little), most people with this opinion have never owned a single Spider morph. Yet, at the same time, are more than ready to get on their soapbox and preach about the issues they have with the morph and anyone working with it. It's their right to do so (and it is recently becoming trendy to do so), but you'll have to forgive me if you catch me shaking my head and smiling. Simply stated, Spiders thrive and breeders working with them have consciences. If they felt that these issues were detrimental (or common) enough to have a negative impact on their quality of life, they wouldn't continue to breed them - that's been proven many times over with other morphs with more serious issues.

    For some more reading on this subject, here's a fantastic article written by one of the most respected breeders in the hobby: https://jkrballstreetjournal.com/201...spiders-silly/.

    Best regards,
    Eric
    Last edited by Eric Alan; 02-24-2017 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Spelling FTW!
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  8. #5
    BPnet Lifer Eric Alan's Avatar
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    Re: i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

    Quote Originally Posted by tttaylorrr View Post
    so my whole idea of "bad breeders produce bad spiders for $$$" is just in my head?
    Resoundingly YES.

    Quote Originally Posted by tttaylorrr View Post
    is there such a thing as "bad" spider morphs?
    Yes, but not for the reasons associated with the Spider quirks you're thinking about. There are some UGLY Spider morphs out there - I'd say they were "bad".
    Find me on Facebook: E.B. Ball Pythons and Instagram: @EBBallPythons

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  10. #6
    BPnet Senior Member tttaylorrr's Avatar
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    Re: i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Alan View Post
    Without stepping up on a podium (OK, maybe a little), most people with this opinion have never owned a single Spider morph.
    you're absolutely right, i never have. i guess i've fallen for the trendy-ness of straying away from the morph, but that's why i felt i needed to ask the forum before i had a solid opinion.

    i'd see beautiful morphs, but see spider and go "oh no, i can't do that" without any other reason other than "well they could have an issue."

    shake your head proudly, but you educated another person with an ignorant mindset. i truly appreciate your response!
    4.4 ball python
    1.0 Albino 0.1 Coral Glow 0.1 Super Cinnamon paradox 1.0 Piebald 0.1 Pastel Enchi Leopard het Piebald 1.0 Coral Glow het Piebald

    1.0 corn snake
    1.0 Hypo

    1.0 crested gecko
    0.1 ????

    0.1 cat
    0.1 Maine Coon mix

    0.1 human ✌︎

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  12. #7
    BPnet Senior Member tttaylorrr's Avatar
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    Re: i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Alan View Post
    Yes, but not for the reasons associated with the Spider quirks you're thinking about. There are some UGLY Spider morphs out there - I'd say they were "bad".
    hahaha, i get it. again, thank you for the reply!
    4.4 ball python
    1.0 Albino 0.1 Coral Glow 0.1 Super Cinnamon paradox 1.0 Piebald 0.1 Pastel Enchi Leopard het Piebald 1.0 Coral Glow het Piebald

    1.0 corn snake
    1.0 Hypo

    1.0 crested gecko
    0.1 ????

    0.1 cat
    0.1 Maine Coon mix

    0.1 human ✌︎

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  14. #8
    BPnet Senior Member StillBP's Avatar
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    Here is my two cents on the spider. If you go back nearly a year ago. (Eric I'm sure you will remember) I was on the fence about spiders. I felt that if they had a neurological defect I did not want to produce them. Fast forward about 6 months and in a trade I got a spider Huffman. I only took him to even the value in the snake I gave and assumed I would resale him. (Unfortunately he was near starved when I got him and has just now been put on the market as he is finally healthy) and I began to understand that these snakes don't have the issues that people think. To this day I haven't seen him wobble. So I bought my wife her dream snake a spider albino. Now she does wobble. But only when she gets excited (feeding time) and even then she doesn't miss her meal. So I took the plunge and bought what I need to make my dream snake. A orange dream spider ( want a super OD spider fire YB) and again no wobble. It seams that a very few bad eggs have tarnished the spiders reputation. And remember as seven said any snake can get a wobble via birth defect or disease. I am glad that I took that first spider in trade or I may have missed out and kept believing that spider balls were a issue snake that I didn't want to produce
    Last edited by StillBP; 02-24-2017 at 03:15 AM.
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  16. #9
    BPnet Veteran AntTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    I don't see any issue in taking the stance to stay away from the spider gene even if you have never owned one. There is a huge difference between a random defect and a known disfunction attached to a phenotype. To reach there own but I plan on staying as far away from the spider gene as possible. There is an old school breeder near me that has even stated that spider sibs can get the wobble. He claims to have proof and offered to show me some animals, but I have yet to make it down there. He also claims to have been on the forefront of discovering the cg/banana sex link, but who knows.
    RAD House Reptiles

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  18. #10
    Registered User DreDeuce's Avatar
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    Re: i have a predisposition to never want any spiders or morphs

    I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the OP's pre-post mindset. I've done a good bit of reading on the Spider Gene, and to me is just not worth it. I seen from multiple sources that every spider has the wobble, to different effects and severity, and that's just not for me. I do feel sorry for them. I know there is a snake and a morph out there for everyone who is interested, but I just couldn't do it. So you can imagine my level of disappointment when i found out 2 morphs that I really like and aspired to get, contained the spider gene. I.E. ... Killer Clown and Bumblebee.. There only possible way I see myself owning a spider is if I had to rescue one.

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