another noob, is my setup correct?

[Chappy4o]

Hi everyone, for the past few weeks i have been researching and setting up my terrarium. i thought i had it all figured out but as soon as i got my new baby citrus female nothing would stay where it should. or am i just overreacting? here is my setup: 10g long zilla critter cage, 50w night black heat bulb UTH on one side two hides (i think they are to small) a large water dish in the center and a lower layer of eco earth with forest moss on top of that. i also have a piece of grapevine angled toward the lamp for gradient. i have an infrared thermometer from exo terra with an exo terra digital probe hydrometer with the probe low in the center of the tank. about 1/3 of the screen lid is covered by a wet paper towel with a piece of plastic wrap covering that i get about 74% humidity and have to dampen the paper towel twice a day or else it dries up and humidity drops to 50 - 60% as for temps i have 86 at the top of the grapevine, 77 at surface level on the hot side and 67 at surface level on the cold side. but keep in mind these temp are after i just did a spot cleaning, water change and soaked the forest moss.




im thinking that temps are low because even when everything has settled they are around 70's on cold side, low 80's on hot side and mid to upper 80's on top of the grapevine.

my snake never uses her hides (like i said i think they are too small) she tends to curl up behind the grapevine between it and the tank wall, or on top of it close to the light. is she stressed? or is she just comfortable. she does move around at night and sometimes during the day when im not home. also i keep finding these little white balls everywhere, i dont know if thats mold or poo . . . . dont know what BP poo looks like lmao.

anywhoo, any and all help and suggestions is appreciated.

thanks

[tttaylorrr]

77 at surface level on the hot side and 67 at surface level on the cold side. but keep in mind these temp are after i just did a spot cleaning, water change and soaked the forest moss.

77 is too low for a hot spot. how are you regulating your UTH and bulbs? you should also be checking the actual bottom of the tank's temperature and not on top of the substrate.

im thinking that temps are low because even when everything has settled they are around 70's on cold side, low 80's on hot side and mid to upper 80's on top of the grapevine.

are these ambient temps? ambient should never drop below 75 anywhere in the tank.

my snake never uses her hides (like i said i think they are too small) she tends to curl up behind the grapevine between it and the tank wall, or on top of it close to the light. is she stressed? or is she just comfortable. she does move around at night and sometimes during the day when im not home.

not using hides is a definite sign of stress. "a hiding ball is a happy ball." with the temps you've provided it seems like she's not warm enough. try to get your hotspot to stay consistently between 88-90° and ambient well above 75°, closer to 80°.

also i keep finding these little white balls everywhere, i dont know if thats mold or poo . . . . dont know what BP poo looks like lmao.

those are called urates and are essentially urine. make sure to check and spot clean daily.

[CALM Pythons]

X2^^^^^^
also your Probe needs to be on the glass above the UTH so you know what the HOT SPOT Basking temp is (ideal 88-91).
I cant tell from a pic but your snake looks to long for those hides..
all those temps you mentioned are low but im wondering if your measuring them wrong. Those UTH get 140 without being run on a dimmer or JumpStart thermistat. You have to regulate heat sources, snakes die like that.
Keep substrate thin where Hot Spot is.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!

[tttaylorrr]

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!

i always forget about the sticky! definitely read through this to learn basic glass enclosure set-up and requirements. it's a terrific post full of info!
also x2 on the hides maybe being too small.

[Chappy4o]

77 is too low for a hot spot. how are you regulating your UTH and bulbs? you should also be checking the actual bottom of the tank's temperature and not on top of the substrate.

thats what i thought, no regulation on UTH or bulb, both stay on constantly. and not trying to be a jerk . . . genuinely curious . . . why do i need to check the actual bottom? the snake will never come in contact with that right?

are these ambient temps? ambient should never drop below 75 anywhere in the tank.

these are not ambient, these are all surface temps either the surface of the moss or the surface of the grapevine. i am using the infrared thermometer from exo-terra

not using hides is a definite sign of stress. "a hiding ball is a happy ball." with the temps you've provided it seems like she's not warm enough. try to get your hotspot to stay consistently between 88-90° and ambient well above 75°, closer to 80°.

copy that, not sure how to do it though considering neither are ever shut off and i get these temps. also do you think the size of the hides are not big enough for her? and that might be what is causing the lack of . . . interest . . . i guess?

those are called urates and are essentially urine. make sure to check and spot clean daily.

excellent thanks, ive been good about getting them out of there when i see them

[Chappy4o]

X2^^^^^^
also your Probe needs to be on the glass above the UTH so you know what the HOT SPOT Basking temp is (ideal 88-91).

my probe is a hydrometer not a thermometer hence the central location

I cant tell from a pic but your snake looks to long for those hides..

thats what i was thinking

all those temps you mentioned are low but im wondering if your measuring them wrong. Those UTH get 140 without being run on a dimmer or JumpStart thermistat. You have to regulate heat sources, snakes die like that.

dont really see any other way to measure it, point my temp gun at surface i want to measure and press the button . . . .

Keep substrate thin where Hot Spot is.

hmmm. . . . im betting that is my problem, there is quite a bit of eco earth and moss in there

[tttaylorrr]

thats what i thought, no regulation on UTH or bulb, both stay on constantly. and not trying to be a jerk . . . genuinely curious . . . why do i need to check the actual bottom? the snake will never come in contact with that right?

snakes can and WILL burrow to the bottom of the substrate; you should always measure every part your snake can reach, especially the hottest part. PLEASE unplug the UTH IMMEDIATELY! ALL sources of heat MUST be regulated! non-negotiable. this is why she won't settle in, she can't regulate properly and is uncomfortable!

these are not ambient, these are all surface temps either the surface of the moss or the surface of the grapevine. i am using the infrared thermometer from exo-terra

again, you should be measuring the bottom of the tank for the hot spot. also the temperature should not drop below 75° anywhere, ambient or otherwise. the infrared temp gun is an awesome tool, though i don't use the exo-terra one. i would also recommend one of these digital thermometer/hygrometers for measuring ambient temps, this is an amazon link but i found mine at walmart.

copy that, not sure how to do it though considering neither are ever shut off and i get these temps. also do you think the size of the hides are not big enough for her? and that might be what is causing the lack of . . . interest . . . i guess?

bulbs help raise ambient temps but i don't use them so i can't help here. and i'm sure the bottom of the enclosure over the hot side is well above 100°. you need to measure the absolute bottom. and yes i do believe the hides look to be too small.

also PLEASE read through the stickied post MrSully provided to ensure your set-up is providing everything your snake needs.

[Stormy]

[QUOTE=Chappy4o;2504591]thats what i thought, no regulation on UTH or bulb, both stay on constantly. and not trying to be a jerk . . . genuinely curious . . . why do i need to check the actual bottom? the snake will never come in contact with that right?




Unplug your UTH immediately!! Your snake will find its way down to the bottom of the tank and will get burned; Google "burned ball python" and see what can happen. Thermostats can be bought for as cheap as $25 on Amazon; this is a MUST have, there's no way around it.

[Chappy4o]

okay, i read the sticky mr sully posted. im gonna run to the pet store and get a few things.

next question, because i have already stuck my UTH to the tank i wont be able to remove it. could i put the t-stat probe on the inside over the UTH and bury the wire? otherwise i think ill have to get a new UTH.

[Craiga 01453]

Some ideas to help get your temps regulated: Definitely get yourself a thermostat, especially for the UTH. Also, it appears your screen lid is almost wide open, with the exception of the paper towel? You're probably losing a lot of heat through that screen lid. You might want to try a piece of plexi-glass or something cut to the size of the screen with a little room around the light to allow some airflow. You could even try a piece of cardboard, but wrapped in aluminum foil. The foil will reflect the heat back into the enclosure as well as prevent the cardboard from soaking up moisture and dropping the humidity. Wrapping the back and sides of the tank in anything from cardboard to construction paper may also help the temps, as glass is a horrible insulator (I currently use glass tanks but am switching to PVC as soon as I can afford to switch). Covering the sides will also make the snake feel more safe and relaxed, reducing the stress of the animal and improving general health.

You, and the others may be right about the hides being too small, tough to tell through pictures. Ideally, the hides should be small enough that the animal can feel secure, often times they will stay pressed up against the sides for security, but obviously, the snake needs to be able to fit inside the hide.

Keep asking questions, you'll get it figured out if you keep asking and follow the advice of the people on this site. You're in good hands here.

Good luck! The frustration will pass as you learn. It does get easier once you've got the husbandry down.