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  1. #26
    BPnet Lifer Eric Alan's Avatar
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    Re: Ball Python Feeding Guidelines

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren_Booth View Post
    Hi Eric,
    That is an older article. The one that I am referring to was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, U.S.A. 2013. Castoe et al. The Burmese Python genome reveals the molecular basis for extreme adaptation in snakes. 110:20645-20650, however I have seen follow up talks with more data presented at several meetings.
    Thank you for sharing. It is incredibly interesting to read about the relationship between the genome sequence itself and the resulting physiological and metabolic adaptations in these animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren_Booth View Post
    My concern is not growth rate. Look at obesity in America for example. Offer a kid food, 9 times out of 10 if it is their favorite meal they will eat it, and... they will grow. Therefore how do you measure growth rate, and how do you determine a healthy growth rate from an excessive and unhealthy growth rate?
    I don't have a scientific answer to those questions beyond knowing how to recognize healthy body proportions versus unhealthy body proportions in both people and pythons. The comparison between the two, however, is a stretch and at best we can say that there is a relationship between obesity and longevity for people and pythons alike. David & Tracy Barker, in their book Ball Pythons: Their History, Natural History, Care, and Breeding, had this to say on the subject:
    • "If environmental conditions are constant, then the rate of growth is a function of the amount of food that is fed, combined with a particular animal's genetic potential for growth and size. There are strong opinions among herpers about exactly what constitutes the optimal growth rate. We don't know what the optimum growth rate is - but neither do we think anyone else has more than a strong opinion on the subject."
    • "Ball pythons that are fed too much become obese. Obesity tends not to be as common in ball pythons as in other python species. As we've mentioned before, ball pythons seem to have a faster metabolism than say, blood pythons, Burmese pythons, or boa constrictors, and P. regius are prone to occasionally stop feeding for periods of several months at a time. Still, we have seen ball pythons that have been overfed and were massively obese."

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren_Booth View Post
    You have 3 years experience keeping ball pythons, therefore how can you determine the impact of this feeding regime on the long term health of the animals in your care, or those that you are recommending this to?
    I never claimed to be working in a silo when I put together this guideline. I appreciate you calling out my experience, though, and questioning my ability to share not only what I've observed myself, but also what I have learned from others during that time. Again, pulling from the Barker's decades of experience:
    • "Our schedule for hatchlings and young snakes is to feed them one rodent per meal, two meals per week. They grow very nicely on this schedule. In six months or so, they get big enough that one adult mouse doesn't even make a bulge. At this point in their lives, we move them to bigger cages and start feeding them small rats, one meal per week."
    • "Throughout most of the year, we offer a meal to our adult ball pythons every week. It's difficult for us to quantify this any more exactly. We attempt to tailor the frequency and the size of meals to the individual snake, and there is quite a variation from snake to snake as to exactly what and when they eat. We may offer and they might refuse, or they might be hungry but we skip a meal. If they are getting too heavy, we may reduce their intake, usually not by fewer meals but by smaller meals. If they need to gain some weight and bulk, we might feed them larger rats or we might feed them more frequently for a while."
    • "We try to keep each snake at a good level of weight throughout its life, and the snakes do the growing. When they are young and growing fast, we have to feed them a lot in order to keep them at a good level of weight, with good fat reserves, but not fat. We might offer a young ball python 70 to 80 meals in the first year. Older, mature snakes have a much slower rate of growth: only 20 to 30 meals a year are necessary to keep a mature snake at a good level of weight, heavy and solid, but without taut skin or scales spread around the posterior body."

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren_Booth View Post
    I am not trying to be argumentative. That may come across due to the nature of non-tonal text, however I am playing devils advocate here and would ask for scientific data to support such a dramatic and prolonged feeding strategy. Speaking to a very successful boa and python breeder recently, he mentioned that his feeding strategy for ball pythons is very simple. Between September and December he feeds them any time they will eat. The rest of the year, they are not fed. He has had incredible success over a very long time with this method. The other aspect to consider is breeder vs. pet. We know that breeders in general want their animals to be breeding size as quick as possible, but again, what is the long term effect of this on health? I personally have concerns over such a strategy, and simply want people to consider the physiological impacts on the animals. We are in a society that is sadly starting to ignore science. As reptile hobbyists, we should embrace it and learn from it. Therefore, before implementing a feeding strategy, lets see some data supporting it being healthy first. (note, colubrids are a totally different beast. Very high metabolic rates and do not do well with prolonged periods without food).


    Regards,
    Warren
    I don't take this as being argumentative. It did seem out of place to be called out based on my own experience, but I'm not one to shy away from that either - I'm well aware of my limitations. Having said that, until such a scientific feeding strategy exists, I'm going to keep feeding my animals based on my own experiences and those of others who have much more experience than I. I don't believe the guideline I shared here is dramatic in the least bit and it, as I shared above in the case of the Barker's, has also proven to have incredible success over a very long time. I simply combined these pieces of information into this easy to follow guide.

    After all of that, I feel I need to quote this excerpt from this guide one more time:

    • "Even with the above advice, it is important to keep in mind that there is no one right way to feed a ball python. Find what works for both you and your animals and stick to it!"

    And one last quote from David & Tracy:

    • "In general, it is a good idea to keep a feeding record for every snake. The problem with records, however, is that for some keepers they become rigid schedules. The keeper will look at the feeding record to decide when to feed a snake instead of looking at the snake. Doing this is a terrible mistake, a manifestation of the tendencies of keepers to seek the security of a hard and fast recipe for the maintenance and husbandry of their snakes. Indeed, much of herpetoculture can be broken down into discrete manageable parts, but the hands-on work with the snakes themselves - the feeding, cleaning, and breeding - requires careful study and evaluation of each snake. Decisions need to be made for each individual snake."

    Best regards,
    Eric
    Find me on Facebook: E.B. Ball Pythons and Instagram: @EBBallPythons

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Eric Alan For This Useful Post:

    Thomasrorvig (06-17-2018)

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