Why the heck do people keep breeding spider morphs?

[Oxylepy]

Okay random question after reading this thread. Do all spiders have the wobble? Would it be possible to breed it out?

Most exhibit the trait minorly (intermittent food shakes, rare odd behavior). A few have it really bad (food shakes every time, frequent odd behavior such as turning when trying to go straight). And some almost never show signs in their life of it.

Whether it can be bred out is entirely dependent on the source of the wobble.

Wobble is related to the line, but separate genetically: This essentially means that the wobble behavior is a separate gene that is related to the spider gene. If this were the case it would likely have already been bred out as in all likelihood half of spiders bred to other morphs would have the wobble.

Wobble is closely related but still separate: This requires gene crossover for it to be bred out. Snakes which rarely exhibit this behavior would likely not pass on the wobble, or the offspring would be the same (rarely exhibiting it). This is possible, but pretty unlikely as I recall people with spiders which don't/rarely exhibit the gene having offspring which do.

Wobble is due to the gene: This is regrettably likely. The way dna works is it codes for your body to produce protiens which then affect the body. That is how the color and pattern morphs work, they alter protien structures or amounts and that causes an effect in the creature. Now when one of those protiens also affects the nervous system or musculature in the animal, you end up with problems, such as wobble. Again, this is most likely the case with how thibgs have worked. It's possible that the range of wobble could be accounted for by the rest of the snakes genetics, or its own compensation for its disorder.

If someone were to try breeding out the trait the best way to go about it would be to select out the spiders with more wobble. This could be culling (which is questionable in practice to the point of being unethical), stopping them from breeding, or just not using them yourself. Ultimately if it were possible to breed it out, you'd have spiders which don't exhibit the trait, and a line of wobble-less spiders.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Okay random question after reading this thread. Do all spiders have the wobble? Would it be possible to breed it out?

1/Yes, to a degree from mild to severe, it can change over time, it can be affected by stress, excitement, temperatures etc. A mild (barely noticeable wobbler can produce a train wreck and vice versa.


2/ No if it was a possibility since Spider have been around since 1999 and are very prevalent in this industry it would have been done already by now, stacking the gene does not change anything either.

[enginee837]

Okay random question after reading this thread. Do all spiders have the wobble? Would it be possible to breed it out?

The next time I feed our female spider I will video it and post. We knew nothing of wobble until someone told us we have a spider and "it has to wobble". If you did not see the pattern on her you would swear she is not a spider as there is not visible wobble at all. She has been hand fed and as of late we let her hunt on her own which she is quite effective at. I wold take a snake like her over one that has not inherent genetic defects but is a problem feeder any day of the week. With all of this said and based on my limited personal experience I would answer you question like this.

1) Wobble is part of the gene. If they have spider they have wobble. You have to look at the gene as more than just a change in pattern as it clearly changes something on a neurological level. With that said, just as no 2 spider patterns are alike I would assume no 2 wobbles are the same either. All have wobble but not all wobble is the same or to the same degree.

2) I do not think it can be bred out through selective breeding as I have heard snakes with little to no wobble have produced very bad cases and snakes with moderate wobble have produced snakes with not visible wobble at all. This does not mean it is impossible, just have not seen any evidence that would correlate degree of wobble to genetic paring. Maybe it can be affected through incubation temps? Who knows..

[AriSilvermoon]

My friend has a bumblebee with the worst wobble I have ever seen. She turns completely upside down when going to strike at her food then proceeds to eat it while upside down. And when she is in shed her head has been known to do loopy loops. With this being said the person has decided never to breed her because she doesn't want to take the chance that it breeds into the babies.

If you are looking into getting a spider morph just make sure you ask the breeder if they know how bad the wobble is and they should know. However just be aware that when you bring the bp home that the wobble might be more prevalent at first because of stress from the new environment. My Enchantress (the vanilla butter banana spider) my friend who bred her didn't really notice a wobble but once I brought her home the first night she did a loopy loop but since then she's been fine. She's only wobbled the once during feeding and missed and ended up grabbing the tail.

Enchantress is my sweetest bp and I love how the spiders morphs look. If you want one just go for it and get one from a reliable breeder. They have their quirks but so does every bp. My one normal will strike at you after every feeding I don't know why she just does. My cinnamon pewter doesn't like to ever lay in the warm side of his cage, he's always in the cool side even while digesting.

[Ashley96]

Thanks guys! Very interesting. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, just thought it was relevant to the topic

[blue roses]

I also own a spider combo, a spinner blast, no wobble issue at all, he eats like a pig, and the only time i ever saw a hint of a slight wobble was when he was a baby. Now he is 2 years old and 1,100g. I am also raising a enchee firefly, and yes i will eventually breed them, and will not be disappointed with a fire spider out of the bunch, they are beautiful, and if it is as sweet as my boy, its all good. As breeders you do everything possible to breed healthy animals, but you can do just so much, the rest is up to mother nature, or god, which ever way you want to look at it.

[Alicia]

2/ No if it was a possibility since Spider have been around since 1999 and are very prevalent in this industry it would have been done already by now, stacking the gene does not change anything either.

*With the possible exception of the Blackhead Spider.

While I'm not sure this one counts, because it changes the optics so much, if it is indeed free (or even largely free) of wobble . . . It might lend some evidence to the idea that the spider wobble is not in the brain per se, but an issue of the inner ear created by pigment distribution during development.

Like what Oxy said above, insufficient pigment in the cells of the inner ear affect balance and mess up the snake's little gyro stabilizers, so to speak. Sort of similar to the way inadequate pigments in the cilia create problems in dogs.

Sorry. Nerd moment over

(Disclaimer: I don't have Spiders. I like them, I've just never seen a spot in the collection for them.)

[blk02ssmonte]

Spider Morphs are awesome and paired with different morphs they can be amazingly breathtaking! That and it is not a life threatening issue people will keep breeding them. I have a Fire/Spider and a Bee. I want to breed my Fire/Spider to my Butter in hopes of hitting the Nuclear Spider.

[m1lkhoney]

Thank you so much for all the replies! I would love to breed on a small scale (but not for YEARS, when I know much more) and was hesitant about any animal with spider in it. But for now I'd just like a pet, and who knows. The wobble might even be endearing. I certainly have some odd traits myself.

[redshepherd]

Thank you so much for all the replies! I would love to breed on a small scale (but not for YEARS, when I know much more) and was hesitant about any animal with spider in it. But for now I'd just like a pet, and who knows. The wobble might even be endearing. I certainly have some odd traits myself.

Agreed it's just more endearing than anything else!